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Member (Idle past 1467 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
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Author | Topic: People - I /was/ a Christian | |||||||||||||||||||||||
kuresu Member (Idle past 2513 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
Ah, but this is very easy to answer.
All those atheists are unhappy because they don't know God.The theists are incredibly happy because they know God and God knows them better than any other culture in the world.
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pbee Member (Idle past 6028 days) Posts: 339 Joined: |
quote:Thats an interesting statement. In the past I recall a group conducting blind tests on that very topic. The results were interesting to say the least. Though many people expressed feelings ranging from loss of hope to complete breakdown, there were a notable number of people who chose to remain faithful to God for the only purpose of doing what was right or pleasing Him. I think this aspect of faith was best documented in the account of Job though.
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pbee Member (Idle past 6028 days) Posts: 339 Joined: |
quote:Well this is all true isn't it. But then again, the entire fiasco seems driven by human emotions to begin with. The same emotional outbreaks and claims can be measured in all aspects of life for that matter. This is more of a human problem than a God and faith problem.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3291 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
pbee writes:
Well, sure, if there is a god to begin with. This is more of a human problem than a God and faith problem.
But we know from reality that the existence of god depends solely on people's faith. It's like santa clause. He exists but only in little kids' minds. It doesn't make him any more real in the real world than, say, the pink unicorn. Disclaimer: Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style. He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!
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pbee Member (Idle past 6028 days) Posts: 339 Joined: |
quote:Well, I don't know about that. We have ancient written records which claim that God made(created all things), now we have the evidence to evaluate and measure. So it would seem as though the existence of God rests on our own capacity to determine whether the claim is true or not. Santa on the other hand, is a child's fairytale. It has been introduced as such and holds no bearing on the origin of life. Though the focus of your statement was placed on the layer of belief. I am not sure we can deny the implications of the beliefs in question to properly evaluate them. It is also notable that a belief in God spans much further than that of Santa. Though God can be many things to many people, the concept in itself seems to precede the limits of our own minds and understanding. I'm not knocking your take on God and faith, but I think that the consensus that many people throw at the topic is in many cases either convoluted or suffering from improper handling. I agree with the thought that God can only exist where people choose to believe in Him though. Edited by pbee, : typo's
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Buzsaw Inactive Member |
They, like Germany before Hitler are riding the waves of their former Christianity and Biblical priciples ingrained in their culture to the extent that over half are baptized and married in churches.
LOL for the future for athiestic Sweden. Like Christian to athiest Crashfrog, they need to return to the source of the principles that brought blessing to their nation in the first place. http://www.socialismtoday.org/46/sweden.html BTW, speaking of racist inuenddos, Perhaps racism is what kept Sweden prosperous, given their rigid stance against imagration, with 90% of the relatively few AfroSwedes there living in poverty. BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past.
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kuresu Member (Idle past 2513 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
Santa Claus is real. Well, more real than any so called "god".
Santa Claus is based off of Saint Nicholas of Myra, a real person, as well as being based off of many other cultural traditions. The myth about Santa Claus living in the north pole with a bunch of little elves and flying reindeer is just that, a myth. Santa--based on a real person.God--based on who or what?
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1467 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
But one question remains outstanding, and that is what is truth? I don't even claim to know for sure, but this I do know: we're talking about two different paths, here. One path is the path of making conclusions from evidence, without bias or prejudice. The other path is simply choosing what fantasy you like best. Just making things up with your imagination. Surely only a great fool would think that the second path is the path that leads to truth?
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pbee Member (Idle past 6028 days) Posts: 339 Joined: |
That's funny.
Truth of it is, because I think your right. Well we could say that God was never labeled as a physical being. Then again, this does not mean He cannot exist. It simply means that both subjects are not of the same form. I fear we may be deviating off topic here. However, there is always room for a God exists does not exist thread though. If anyone wants to spawn one with a spin, it might end up entertaining who knows.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3291 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
pbee writes:
Oh, sure, and we also have ancient records of Gaia and Uranus and the titans and the cyclops and the olympians and the trojan war and the achilles' heel...
Well, I don't know about that. We have ancient written records which claim that God made(created all things), now we have the evidence to evaluate and measure. So it would seem as though the existence of God rests on our own capacity to determine whether the claim is true or not.
Ok. Where and when have we determined the existence of god through analysis of physical evidence?
I'm not knocking your take on God and faith, but I think that the consensus that many people throw at the topic is in many cases either convoluted or suffering from improper handling.
My point exactly. So far, the only accounts we have of god are from the same people that committed genocidal acts in his name. Why on earth would you be taking their accounts seriously when there are literally thousands and thousands of other accounts around the world throughout the ages, especially when not one of them have been confirmed through any kind of tangible evidence? Disclaimer: Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style. He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1467 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
You obviously had no experience. Else, you would have remembered and not turned into the atheist you are. Wrong again. I did have the experience, and I'm still an atheist now. Of course, you can't possibly allow yourself to believe that, because you're scared to death of the obvious conclusion - you could be an atheist, someday. Suggestion? get over your fear of atheism. It's paralyzing you.
This statement tells a profound story. Haven't you always felt this way? Even when you were a christian? Not at all.
Did things really change when you got out of christianity? A big change, for the better. I took control of my life instead of "putting God in charge." I began to make something of myself. I began to address my faults and work to change them. When I stopped wasting my time praying for things, and worked to make them happen, they began to happen. It was a big change, for the better.
Make it up. Why? Why make it up? Just because I want it? That's not a very good reason. Why not stick with what is true?
What? What what? It was a perfectly clear statement in plain English. What didn't you understand?
That sounds like an assertion of truth. Have you tried any of these? Of course I have. Many others have, too. It's instructive that nobody ever has levitated themselves except by scientific technology.
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. How is this useless? Hoping is always useless compared to doing.
You sound like a small child who has had his blanky taken from him. You mean, I sound like an adult? Isn't that, indeed, the process of maturity? When we cease to be children with safety blankets? Why won't you give your blanket up? Because you have the mind and spirit of a child; the needs of a child to be safe and protected from the real world. Why don't you join us at the adult table, sometime, and leave off your childish fantasies of Santa Claus gods?
No matter what anybody says they will never take the experience of God away from me. Oh, I don't expect you to be convinced by me. I mean, obviously. That's the first thing religion inculcates in its victims - "don't pay attention to the unbelievers." "What they say may sound wise but it's actually foolishness." Of course you won't be swayed by my words - that's precisely how your religion wants it to be. How could it survive, otherwise? It's the lack of authentic experience of God in your life that will convince you, eventually; when you get tired of imagining the whole thing. If even Mother Theresa can doubt the existence of God for the last 50 years of her life, I have hope even for you. Or, you'll die fooling yourself. A tragedy, but one you can bring to an end at any time.
Materialistic Humanism is innately devoid of spirituality so how can you, who has no experience, come close to witnessing truth to me? Because I've experienced everything you have, and more. I've had every experience you have, and more. And I know the truth of God that you refuse to countenance - it's all a human invention. The need of a childlike mind for a cosmic parent. Doesn't your religion, after all, call God the "father"? Doesn't it call you all "children of God"?
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pbee Member (Idle past 6028 days) Posts: 339 Joined: |
quote:To my knowledge, it remains to be done. quote:That sounds like a good topic. Not trying to lead you into anything here, but it seems like a good basis for a discussion. If you are up to it. Personally, I think the ancient scriptures have enough weight to call for consideration. While many would scoff at this, for the most part they remain unaware of the information(content) that the scriptures contain. Nevertheless, the entire account is not without controversy, as you mentioned. However, is it really controversial or are we looking at the results of misinterpretation an yet more human derivatives? Is it really as religions put it or is it bigger than that? Is it really intangible or is it measurable? The questions go on and on. However one thing remains outstanding. The answers will not come about by hand waving alone.
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kuresu Member (Idle past 2513 days) Posts: 2544 From: boulder, colorado Joined: |
Hitler was religious.
German soliders had "Gott min us" on their belt buckles. And just what is the immigration stance of Sweden?Some interesting statements: At first there was some reluctance to accept these foreigners but fairly soon they were generally accepted and even welcomed
Some 30,000 Estonians and 5,000 Latvians remained in Sweden after the war. About 30,000 survivors from Nazi concentration camps were resettled in Sweden between 1945 and 1948
A total of 550,000 Finns migrated to Sweden during this time period.{1950s-60s}
Unlike other Western European countries, Sweden had a policy of permanent immigration that treated these labor migrants as future citizens.
Sweden officially ended labor migration from non-Nordic countries in 1972.
Asylum seekers from developing countries and flows of their family members characterize Sweden's third phase of immigration (1972 to 1989).
In total, Sweden accepted 18,000 Chilean refugees between 1973 and 1989. Approximately 6,000 refugees from Argentina, Uruguay, Bolivia, Brazil, and Peru also came to Sweden For a good chunk of it's modern (post WWII) history, Sweden has been somewhat lax about letting people in. Not for racist issues though (go further back, to just before WWII you'll see some anti-semitism). The restrictive immigration policy is actually relatively new.They are, however, looking into why and how the immigrants have a higher rate of unemployment and dependency of social wealthfare. They haven't nailed the problem, but they at least want to help these people and have been. Migration Information Source | migrationpolicy.org I can't find any data on your statement about the poverty level of African Swedes. It's also anecdotal evidence, but no one in my family in Sweden is racist. The people I know do not come off as racist. by the way, it's atheist, not athiest.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1344 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Since the knowledge of God is to attain eternal life, what do atheists offer? The truth. well, the fundamentalists are trying to sell me that too. only they're willing to pitch in the way and the life as well, for no extra charge (just shipping and handling).
But the way you frame it - as though atheists are just one stall at a bazaar of religions, where people pick and choose at their whim based on what's for sale - really proves my point, doesn't it? well, no. there are people say atheism is not just another religion, and then still treat it as such. i think its on the shoulders of the atheists to not act like the religious nuts. wouldn't you say?
Atheism offers little solace, little comfort, and certainly little to no hope in "life everlasting". crash, i tell you in all hopes that you will understand and knowing full well that you probably wont -- religion isn't easy either. fundamentalism tries to make it seem that way, and the fact that it's not, that so much of it fails to make sense, is what tends to drive people away from it. if one truly believes what the bible says, and not just what they wish it said, there's little comfort there, either. a god who sends his chosen people into exile after exile, just to prove a point. a god who has been known to lie, and destroy all of humanity on a whim. a god who punishes the just and rewards the wicked. that "god loves you" stuff is groovy and all, but some books don't even seem to point to an afterlife at all. frankly, i feel a lot better knowing exactly how little of it is true. and i'm betting that you do too. fundamentalism simplifies things into black and white. it's what it does. don't mistake that for a second with the full spectrum of religious thought, that it's all happy go-lucky and flowers and shit.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1344 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
What made me change my mind? Unlike crashfrog, I actually remember the instance when it hit me. And yet, it was a pretty damn hard hit. It was the realization that I was a sexist, racist, and bigot, and everytime I talked to god he always answered me by telling me I was right to hate. sometimes i worry that that god is real, and i delude myself into believing in the compassionate one.
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