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Member (Idle past 1487 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
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Author | Topic: People - I /was/ a Christian | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2190 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Non Sequitor.
quote: I really have no idea what this has to do with anything.
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Cold Foreign Object  Suspended Member (Idle past 3068 days) Posts: 3417 Joined: |
People - I was a Christian. A fundamentalist, creationist one. Biblical inerrancy. Redeeming power of Jesus. Gave my life to Christ. All that stuff. I've been there, people. I do know, truly, what you speak of, White Guy. I was all wrapped up in it - which is how I know that it's fake and you're fooling yourself. In other words you are a loser who could not make it with God. You did not have an experience with the "redeeming power of Jesus" because if you did then you would be a Christian.
I know this because I had faith. I was full of it. And it was useless. It was only when I eliminated faith that I began to make anything of myself. They say "God is my co-pilot" but it was only when I took the wheel myself that I ever got anywhere. If you had had faith then you would not be this "know-it-all" Atheist that you are today. The Bible says that God honors faith, apparently you had none, and apparently you had God on trial when, of course, we (you and I) are on trial. Here is what God wants: A person must come to Him on His terms. His terms: Pursue Him by faith, this means that you must assume His answer to your prayer and act in faith upon it until He brings it to pass. You apparently treated God as a butler and refused to act in faith day in and day out until He brought your prayer to pass. He will test each person via this formula until the day we die. At some point God honors ones faith and grants your prayer. Then you need another faith challenge. But what happens is that faith connects the person to God and His indwelt Spirit begins to abide which causes the born-again experience - something you never got Crashfrog because you quit.
John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. The correction interpretation of this verse is that Jesus, when He says "commandments" He is talking in the overall context of the New Testament gospel (= way of faith to relate to God as opposed to Mosaic code of conduct, the Old Testament). What happens when the way of faith is genuinely pursued ("commandment to have faith")? The last phrase happens:
and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him Since this never happened to you Crashfrog you never embarked on a real path of faith. As soon as God did not respond according to your time table you went your own way and here you are a convinced Atheist, that is, a loser who could not make it with God. Ray
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1487 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
In other words you are a loser who could not make it with God. How could I? There's no such thing. And quite frankly, Ray, you can take your ad hominem and cram it up your ass. You're doing exactly what I suspected you people would; you're scared to death at the idea that someone could escape your prison of bullshit, so you have to pretend like I was never in the prison, in the first place.
You did not have an experience with the "redeeming power of Jesus" because if you did then you would be a Christian. Learn to read, Ray. I was a Christian, as were many others. Christians identical to yourself. The only difference is, you haven't left the faith yet. But you will, if you live long enough.
A person must come to Him on His terms. I did. As it turns out, there's nothing to come to. If even Mother Theresa can come to realize the truth that there is no God, there's little hope for your faith, don't you think?
Since this never happened to you Crashfrog you never embarked on a real path of faith. But that's exactly what I embarked on. I had faith. I had genuine communion with God. And then, I realized it was all self-delusion. Look, I felt it, Ray. I felt exactly what you feel now. But I'm smarter and wiser than you, which led me to the realization that I was deluding myself. There's no aspect of faith that I "didn't get." I got it all. But I understand how you have to deny that to the last, out of your cowardice.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1364 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
And quite frankly, Ray, you can take your ad hominem and cram it up your ass. oh shit! calling all bets, folks!
You did not have an experience with the "redeeming power of Jesus" because if you did then you would be a Christian. Learn to read, Ray. I was a Christian, as were many others. Christians identical to yourself. The only difference is, you haven't left the faith yet. But you will, if you live long enough. ah, this is apparently something you didn't quite experience about fundamentalism, and that most people never do until they're out of it. you see, if you can leave, well, evidently you weren't serious in the first place. yeah, you were never really a christian. similar to "you can't quit! you're fired!"
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1364 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
i don't think faith is a choice. It isn't until you make it one. you make it sound like a bad habit. think of it more like a mental disorder. i realize that analogy doesn't help my case, and i'm well aware that you're more than willing to run with it. but the man who says he never does anything the least bit irrational is either a liar, or delusional.
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iceage  Suspended Member (Idle past 5935 days) Posts: 1024 From: Pacific Northwest Joined: |
Ray writes: In other words you are a loser who could not make it with God Strange choice of words. I have this vision of Ray and God on the couch and ... oh well no don't go there.
Ray writes:
and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him Since this never happened to you Crashfrog you never embarked on a real path of faith. As soon as God did not respond according to your time table you went your own way and here you are a convinced Atheist, that is, a loser who could not make it with God. And when is God's love going to manifest itself in you and from you out towards others? Judging other peoples experiences and calling them a loser is not a product of love, but just ole twisted, hateful, spiteful, vulgar Ray.... It is well demonstrated here and elsewhere.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1487 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
you make it sound like a bad habit. It is, but it's one you can break with practice. You really, really don't have to go around having faith in things unseen, if you don't want to.
but the man who says he never does anything the least bit irrational is either a liar, or delusional. Well, I agree, but that doesn't mean we have to go around consciously accepting propositions on the basis of no good evidence. I mean, nobody's twisting our arms, right? (Except for the Christians who are literally doing that.)
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iceage  Suspended Member (Idle past 5935 days) Posts: 1024 From: Pacific Northwest Joined: |
arach writes: you make it [faith] sound like a bad habit.
Crashfrom writes: It is, but it's one you can break with practice. I can relate to Arach. As a result of some experiences (which I don't want to go into) in my formative years I find I still have some nagging sense of, or tendency to rely on "faith" or believing in a patriarchal anthropomorphic personal God. Silly as I know it is from all the research, reasoning and ceiling gazing that I have done. Maybe it is PTSD or imprinting I am not sure. Or maybe it is because I am a skeptic's skeptic and I find myself being skeptical of being skeptical. I even find myself needing faith in not having faith. I have read and gained from all the "testimonies" here and have found they have increased this sort of faith.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3312 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
mike writes:
Mike, go back and read your very old posts. I've taken a look at them after someone here told me about your old self in chat. Back then, you believed that your bogus arguments made perfect sense and everyone else was a dumbass for not buying your bogus arguments. Nowadays, you are essentially saying the same damn thing about your logical jargons.
It's not logical jargons. Every logical point I have made has had educational value. I am not being mean, but it's that you don't understand what I am saying. I couldn't create working riddles with jargon. Many here will think as you do because they either don't know the full extent of what I am saying, or they just think colloquially.
You have said this before - that I am trying to prove God with logic. Yet I know logic can't do that, and I have never argued it.
Not directly, no. I'll tell you what, I'm too lazy right now to actually track down your specific posts on the matter. However, I will be keeping my eyes open and point them out in the future. We'll see how long before you begin to try to use your logical jargon on the matter of god again. Added by edit.
Here is an example. Your current logical jargons are little better than your bogus arguments in the past. The only change is you've dressed them up in jargonic language and labeled them "logic".
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein. Take comments concerning this warning to the Moderation Thread. AdminPD Edited by Tazmanius Devilus, : No reason given. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning Disclaimer: Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style. He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!
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AdminPhat Inactive Member |
Cold Foreign Object writes: A clear violation of the Forum Guidelines,Ray. This merits a suspension. For now, you have had a final warning. in other words you are a loser who could not make it with God. Edited by AdminPhat, : edit You may also take your argument here and get feedback from other administrators. Usually, we leave topic promotion to the first administrator that responds, unless that administrator invites others to comment. ************************************ "DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU" AdminPhat
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BobAliceEve Member (Idle past 5415 days) Posts: 107 From: Seattle, WA, USA Joined: |
Yes. I say that as honestly as does blugenes in message 89; during which journey I would have God's blessing.
My God wants me to explore and thereby learn truth and Truth by my experience. The more I actually do that, the more I fulfill God's plan for me. I choose to activly participate in God's plan for me. In doing so, I choose God. You are right in saying that "You(I) don't know what the future will bring" regarding my(your) dis/belief in God. But which path you and I choose will not make my God jealous; in fact my God will be pleased that I have been activly involved.
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4755 From: u.k Joined: |
That link you posted was from early 2003!
It's nearly 2008, Taz.
Not directly, no. I'll tell you what, I'm too lazy right now to actually track down your specific posts on the matter. However, I will be keeping my eyes open and point them out in the future. We'll see how long before you begin to try to use your logical jargon on the matter of god again. That's begging the question, because "again" assumes I done it in the first place without actually proving I did. And if yu think the 2003-link proves it, then that's a pre-hoc error, because that was before I used logic. Here's a link to the former fallacy - just incase you think logic is "jargon".
HERE Also, you said "logical jargon" ad nauseum. Here's what ad nauseum means;
argumentum ad nauseum link writes: But no matter how many times you repeat something, it will not become any more or less true than it was in the first place Read the links - but read into them. Don't just read the language - do the actual thinking required to understand them according to the notation of logic. Your posts consist of epithets, instead of reasoning. "Bigot""Jargon" Big words are no substitute for genuine sound reasoning.Or am I being obtuse? Oh - let's see what an independent source says! link writes: A loaded word is like a loaded gun, and its evaluative meaning is the bullet. [SNIP] - The fallacy is committed either when an arguer attempts to use loaded words in place of an argument, or when an arguee makes an evaluation based on the colorful language in which an argument is clothed, rather than on the merits of the argument itself. Your posts consist of colourful accusatory language. Your style is to point to specific examples of bad evil Christians and calim that all units of the whole are therefore guilty. (I apologise fo rthe grammatical tautology, bad evil Christians. We seen this when you said that ignorance go had in hand with being christian, etc...That was a false conditional. IF you're a Christian, THEN you're ignorant. Notice you don't have toprove any of this formally?
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein. Take comments concerning this warning to the Moderation Thread. AdminPD Edited by mike the wiz, : No reason given. Edited by AdminPD, : Warning
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Taz Member (Idle past 3312 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
mike writes:
Doesn't it strike you odd that in every generation it has always been the overwhelming majority of christians that are at the forefront of campaigns against human rights of some kind? When I pointed to specific examples, I meant them as representing the much larger group that is out there actively working against some kind of human rights. That's what I was referring to when I said you guys remind me not to become a christian again. Your posts consist of colourful accusatory language. Your style is to point to specific examples of bad evil Christians and calim that all units of the whole are therefore guilty. (I apologise fo rthe grammatical tautology, bad evil Christians.
I think I've pointed out this example before. I'm sure there were a few nazis here and there that were good people. But that doesn't change the fact that the nazis in the larger picture represented a state of extreme evil. Note that I am not saying christians are like nazis. You guys are obviously not. But in a similar way, I'm sure there are good christians out there. But the fact that you guys as a group keep fighting against some of the most basic human right issues tell me something about the faith as a whole. Admin, this issue between me and mike is very much on topic. We are talking about me being an ex-christian and why I changed.
IF you're a Christian, THEN you're ignorant.
Nope, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the evidence I've seen so far points to the fact that christians as a group tend to lean toward ignorance. We don't see anti-science atheists around do we? We don't see atheist organizations keep trying to push through legislations to curb human rights do we?
Notice you don't have toprove any of this formally?
Well, this is informal logic. There's no such thing as "prove". However, I can show you plenty of examples, plenty of evidence, and plenty of bleedingly obvious facts about this issue. For a starter, when was the last time you heard anything about a christian rally or support of gay rights advocates? It's not just that there are christians that fight their hardest to keep gay people in the second class citizentry, it's also the rest that don't say anything against the christians are wreaking havoc. Heck, you guys (the american ones anyway) went out and voted in masses for Bush because he was Da Man that's gonna keep them gays unrepresented. The evidence clearly shows that christian as a group are doing more harm to democracy than not, and I should stay clear of christianity if I want to not go down this rabbit hole. Disclaimer: Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style. He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!
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Taz Member (Idle past 3312 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
iceage writes:
I think we all have that voice deep down that tell us we like having some kind of supernatural protector watching over us at times. I must admit that there are times when I do wish deep down that there is such thing as fate. When I do actually pretend to myself that god is watching me, I must admit to feel a lot better in times of need. This, of course, doesn't change the fact that it's nothing more than my personal need for a supernatural protector and that my mind has created a delusion to satisfy this need. Silly as I know it is from all the research, reasoning and ceiling gazing that I have done. Disclaimer: Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style. He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!
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mike the wiz Member Posts: 4755 From: u.k Joined: |
This concludes my participation at EvC. There are too many issues here. I sense a certain futility in this discussion.
Deep down I think you're a good guy Gasby, but I think you're a bit cynical because of your former experiences of Christianity.
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