People - I /was/ a Christian

In other words you are a loser who could not make it with God.You did not have an experience with the "redeeming power of Jesus" because if you did then you would be a Christian. If you had had faith then you would not be this "know-it-all" Atheist that you are today. The Bible says that God honors faith, apparently you had none, and apparently you had God on trial when, of course, we (you and I) are on trial.Here is what God wants:A person must come to Him on His terms.His terms:Pursue Him by faith, this means that you must assume His answer to your prayer and act in faith upon it until He brings it to pass. You apparently treated God as a butler and refused to act in faith day in and day out until He brought your prayer to pass. He will test each person via this formula until the day we die. At some point God honors ones faith and grants your prayer. Then you need another faith challenge. But what happens is that faith connects the person to God and His indwelt Spirit begins to abide which causes the born-again experience - something you never got Crashfrog because you quit. John 14:21

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He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.The correction interpretation of this verse is that Jesus, when He says "commandments" He is talking in the overall context of the New Testament gospel (= way of faith to relate to God as opposed to Mosaic code of conduct, the Old Testament).What happens when the way of faith is genuinely pursued ("commandment to have faith")?The last phrase happens: and I will love him, and will manifest myself to himSince this never happened to you Crashfrog you never embarked on a real path of faith. As soon as God did not respond according to your time table you went your own way and here you are a convinced Atheist, that is, a loser who could not make it with God.Ray

There was no ad hom, Crashfrog, just a self-evident observation.Looks like the truth hit a nerve. My comment about you being a loser who could not make it with God attracted the warning of a fellow Darwinian-Moderator who apparently felt sorry for you.If you can't take the heat of a topic that YOU created, but accept the bail out of a fellow Darwinian Moderator, then I advise that you do not create such topics in the future. My comment was antiseptic compared to yours and I do not feel the least bit offended. First off, you admit to being a Fundamentalist - they aint real Christians. They are legalists who do not understand the gospel, but superimpose Christ ONTO Mosaic law/code of conduct as the way one walks with Christ. This is heresy. The gospel message is: God will accept faith as the only other alternative to Mosaic works/code of conduct to relate to Him through Christ - that's the GOOD NEWS (= meaning of the word 'gospel').IF you had genuine faith then a born-again experience with Christ would have resulted at some point. But you quit or never had faith since Fundamentalists have not a clue as to what faith or the gospel really is. Are you blind to the contradiction in this statement? If you had really discovered God or like you say "had genuine communion with God" then we would not be having this conversation, would we?But your next comment admits that you were not and did not have "genuine communion with God": 2Timothy 4:10"For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world..."This is how the Bible explains your kind: you simply forsook God because you loved the world, now you are deceived into believing that God does not exist.Ray

Phat is an evolutionist/Darwinist (said words are synonyms) who thinks he is a Christian. A Christian accepts the fact that their Savior's Father created the world and the appearance of design seen in reality corresponds to His power; evolutionists reject design indicating invisible Designer = Atheism. Logically, real Christians do not agree with Atheists concerning ORIGINS. Phat (like all "Christians" who accept evolution) is deceived; that is how the Bible explains their belief about them self. Phat (and all TEists) think that God has given them a special exemption (= deceived) concerning evolution - the Bible says no such thing exists, but the exact opposite. In the context that I used it ("loser") was not ad hom. It was a logical conclusion based on the preceding argument.The fact that his comment did not attract Phat "the Christian's" attention is easily explained by the fact that both he and Crashfrog are Atheists, at least Crashfrog knows that he is an Atheist, unlike Phat who is deceived and deluded, much like Judas who "walked with" Christ too. You do not understand NTS.NTS is an attempt to objectify subjectivity. No, that is not the definition of a Fundamentalist. A Fundamentalist is many things, theologically (the main issue) Fundamentalists accept the message of the book of James to be equal and congruent with Pauline epistles. This means they are legalists and have rejected the gospel (= way of faith alone, Paul's message).James wrote to contradict Paul.Jesus, in Acts 9, chose Paul as His mouthpiece.The purpose of the book James is to showcase the perversion of the gospel as explained by Paul. Fundamentalists do not understand this. Negative.That is evangelicalism."ev" in Greek means "good.""angel" is a messenger from God.In other words, evangel[ist] means "good message" from God.What is the "good message" from God?It's in Paul's epistles and not James: God will accept faith, in place of works, to relate to Him through Christ - period.Ray

http://EvC Forum: People - I /was/ a Christian -->EvC Forum: People - I /was/ a ChristianYou have ran away.In addition, this thread is not about the views of an ex-Christian turned apostate. It is Atheist evangelism telling Christians that they are deluded and an attempt to deconvert them.CHRISTIANS: Crashfrog is an Atheist-evolutionist, his hero is an idiot who is loved by the secular world (Richard Dawkins). Their message is "Evolution Saves."Intelligent persons with God-sense can see how pathetic they are. They are too stupid to be Christians and/or believers. The Bible says these persons have not rejected God, but that God has rejected them. That is why they reject God.Go ahead and read Crashfrog's posts and thank God that He thought better of you and did not let you go.Ray

I have already posted a message pointing out that Froggy is on the run. He replied with an excuse citing all the responses in this thread. The point is that he is running, ignoring the posts that piss him off, and in the posts he replies to he ignores the most critical points.His main "argument" is a perfect self-contradicting circle: "I was a real believer, knew God, but it was really a delusion, therefore the same is true with you." Again, Froggy has evaded the quality posts and their best content and answered and engaged the muddled and convoluted mind of Arach (= a "closet" Atheist).Buzsaw: my earlier comments about Fundamentalism are not in any way directed at you. We disagree theologically and denominationally as do many Christians - big deal. I have read many posts by the Atheist-evolutionist element here at EvC condemning you with harsh invective. This means you are uttlerly correct and on the right path in my eyes. Whoever the evolutionists condemn are the most right, this is invulnerable logic. You are a great Creationist and Designist, which is the subject here at EvC and I do not want our enemies to misconstrue theological difference between you and I to mean that we do not support one another. I think that you agree too.Ray

Forget about Phat - you aint one either. What I wrote about Phat simply insert your name in place of his. We know this by what comes out of your mouth/keyboard (atheistic viewpoints). A person is as they argue, and not as they label them self, if the two contradict. As I suspected you do not know what NTS is about.NTS says objective truth does not exist; therefore, it is an attempt to "objectify" subjectivity.There are ways to identify real Christians, that is, there are ways to verify if a claim of Christianity is true. NTS is an attempt to evade objective truth and say that there is no way or method to objectively identify personal claims. You have evaded facts and repeated yourself because you cannot refute what was said. A real Christian would not slander the gospel to be that which western societies consider to be moronic. When we remember that you are an evolutionist, that is, a person who agrees with Richard Dawkins concering ORIGINS, then your slander of the Bible and the gospel is explained instantly.The gospel (= way of faith) is not Fundamentalism - that is Atheist slander of God's word. You are a Fundamentalist Atheist evolutionist who is enraged and has no other way to attack that which you hate (= Bible) except by slander.We are glad your kind rejects the Bible; it would be the best evidence that the Bible is wrong, and the fact that you are uneducated as is seen in your grammar and punctuation is the best prima facie evidence of your Fundamentalist status (besides the other errors pointed out in this post).Ray

Crashfrog has repeatedly claimed that he was a real Christian, that he was having genuine communion with God, but then he realized that it wasn't really God after all - he was deluded having communion with himself.Crashfrog has stated his testimony badly. The logical flaws are self-evident: he could not have been a "real Christian" if Christ and/or God do not exist? But this is how he has expressed his case: "I was a real Christian." Again, he could not have been if the Deity does not exist. Crashfrog, because he has already stated his argument this way cannot admit to the illogic and correct himself, but he must defend what was said (because he said it) and insult everyones intelligence.But he has admitted that he was deluded into thinking that he was having communion with God but it turned out that he was simply entertaining himself.How does the Bible explain Crashfrog's admitted delusion? The context of these verses is persons who have rejected Christ as Lord of their life. God says if you scorn Him and His Son He will send a strong delusion so that you will believe a lie for the sole purpose of making sure your eternal damnation.This is what happens when you make excuses for your failure to make it with God.This exposes the lies in Crashfrog's story. He had God on trial and when he didn't get what he wanted when he wanted it he gave God the finger - that's what really happened. These verses say that God gives the finger back and makes you believe something that is not true. Since Crashfrog has admitted that he was under a delusion, the Bible says it is from God and it explains Crashfrog's present state of blasphemous apostasy.The Bible corresponds to reality and is true: my only point.Ray

And 2Thessalonians told us why you believe this to be true: God has deluded your mind as a punishment for scorning His Son. We have an explanation for your admitted delusion.Since the verses were written in the First century it explains your self-admitted delusion. The verses correspond perfectly to your testimony and provide the real reason for your present deluded state: you scorned Christ and God has punished you with a "strong delusion."The textual evidence explains your testimony.The point is that we have an explanation and it fits the facts of your admissions perfectly, any objective person can see this. 2Thessalonians 2:11, 12

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And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

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That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness {= rejecting faith to relate to Christ until results are achieved}.Ray

There is no evidence supporting Arach's claim that he is a Christian.Everything he says corresponds to well known Atheist viewpoint, therefore, logically, he is an Atheist. Of course.RayEdited by Cold Foreign Object, : No reason given.

Since you questioned my honesty: it is an axiomatic truth that Atheists (like yourself) cannot be honest or objective about the Source which falsifies their worldview.You are just plain wrong about the context (which supports the axiom argued above). The context of verses 11 and 12 is verse 10: This says persons rejected the love of Christ "that they might be saved." God tells us the penalty of scorning His Son in the next two verses. Crashfrog has admitted delusion, the verses tells us the Source of the delusion and why.Ray

Said response makes no sense, but simply denies a self-evident fact: Atheists are horribly biased against the Bible and their opinions concerning the Scriptures are, of course, entirely predictable and predetermined.RayEdited by Cold Foreign Object, : No reason given.

My comment was talking about persons here at EvC Forum. Since Buzsaw and Randman and NJ and myself are ritually condemned, this is the best evidence that we are correct since our 'condemners' are Atheists and Evolutionists.Ray

Yes it does. You have evaded my reply altogether, which was simple and logical. The context of verses 11 and 12 is verse 10 and the same plainly speaks of persons who have rejected Christ's love and salvation (content after semi colon: "because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved."). In response, God, through Paul, in the next two verses, says He will delude the minds of these persons for the sole purpose of making sure they suffer eternal damnation.This explains Crashfrog's admitted delusion and the title of Richard Dawkins most recent book. Yes, there is a delusion at work, and the Bible says those who have rejected Christ (Atheists and Apostates) are the target of delusion.Your MiddleTown Bible Church quote evades what the tenth verse actually says and it is probably a quote mine on your part.Ray

No one denies this nor is this fact in dispute, nor was it ever in dispute, Jar. IF you are attempting to say that what is written does not apply today, nor can it be interpreted to apply today, then this is false, since the Bible is the eternal word of God and since I have already shown perfect correspondence to the reality called Crashfrog. False.The issue is the context of verses 11 and 12, which is the last phrases of verse 10. Since I have plainly said this and since you have ignored we must conclude that you cannot refute? Slander.Dr. Lloyd Jones: "Who is preaching the gospel? Whoever is being slandered."RayEdited by Cold Foreign Object, : No reason given.

This topic (by Crashfrog) is an attempt to proselytize in behalf of the Atheist faith.We are TOLD (by Crashfrog) that we must take his word that he was a "real Christian." He fails to see that this claim is impossible since it presupposes the reality of Christ, which he then says in the next breath does not exist.But, however, Crashfrog ***could have been*** a real Christian, then, through the process of time, become apostate. This is, unfortunately, a common testimony. We know Charles Darwin was a Christian, then an Apostate, then an Atheist.I have argued (up until this point) that Crashfrog was not a real Christian at any point, however, this argument was incomplete. We know many persons have this exact testimony and I wish to concede the point and grant him his assertion.The Bible shows many examples of persons who WERE believers then became apostate: Paul said "Demas hath forsaken me having loved this present world." Jude speaks of Apostates who try and take advantage of the Church structure. Judas was "a real Christian" but we know that he betrayed Christ, and, of course, there is Eli the Priest (in the O.T.) who God judged for failing to execute his office. I could go on and on with BIBLICAL examples.The point is that 2Thessalonians 2 plainly tells us that God "sends strong delusion" if you trifle with Him. Sure Crashfrog was a real Christian, but he trifled with Christ, rejected the fact that he was on trial, quit the way of faith, and he is now suffering the delusion spoken of, and like the verses say, "believes a lie."In response, Crashfrog says that the authors of the Bible were smart enough to explain rejection of their message by claiming that God deludes the minds of persons. In other words, Crashfrog is saying that the Apostles are liars.We have a choice here: do we believe our own experience with Christ and the results of our faith that God has honored based on what St. Paul and the Apostles have said, or do we believe some Atheist-evolutionist loon on the Internet?Ray