Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 77 (8905 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 04-26-2019 7:46 AM
34 online now:
AZPaul3, marc9000, Percy (Admin), Phat (AdminPhat), vimesey (5 members, 29 visitors)
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: WookieeB
Post Volume:
Total: 850,247 Year: 5,284/19,786 Month: 1,406/873 Week: 302/460 Day: 2/52 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
RewPrev1
...
1314
15
1617
...
25NextFF
Author Topic:   Was there a worldwide flood?
EighteenDelta
Inactive Member


Message 211 of 372 (421631)
09-13-2007 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by RAZD
09-13-2007 12:39 PM


Re: Where the water came from and went.
Would you be so kind as to link to said 'solution'? Perhaps when Vash and Rob return they can address this, though the question was up for a while before the most recent suspension of Vash (HEWG).
This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by RAZD, posted 09-13-2007 12:39 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by RAZD, posted 09-13-2007 1:19 PM EighteenDelta has not yet responded
 Message 213 by bdfoster, posted 09-13-2007 1:22 PM EighteenDelta has not yet responded

RAZD
Member
Posts: 19819
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 212 of 372 (421636)
09-13-2007 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by EighteenDelta
09-13-2007 1:01 PM


Re: Where the water came from and went.
Would you be so kind as to link to said 'solution'?

um ... most recently on Message 209? That's it in a nutshell. With the earth rendered a sphere topologically regardless of actual geography, the water would flow to (relatively) equal depth on all surfaces and perpendicular to the surface would be "down" ... you also have the water flowing out of "the deep" too.

Perhaps when Vash and Rob return they can address this, ...

Of course this pre-supposes a supernatural flood, not that it should be a problem for the literalists.

Enjoy.

Edited by RAZD, : .

Edited by RAZD, : sp


Join the effort to unravel AIDS/HIV, unfold Proteomes, fight Cancer,
compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click)


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by EighteenDelta, posted 09-13-2007 1:01 PM EighteenDelta has not yet responded

bdfoster
Member (Idle past 2990 days)
Posts: 60
From: Riverside, CA
Joined: 05-09-2007


Message 213 of 372 (421638)
09-13-2007 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by EighteenDelta
09-13-2007 1:01 PM


Re: Where the water came from and went.
I think the more sophistocated YECs, if there is such a thing, or at least the most modern and up to date YECs, actually think the earth was flat, or with very low relief prior to the flood. Most now subscribe to some kind of catastrophic or rapid plate tectonics in which the present day mountains were formed. They realized that instead of beating their heads against the overwhelming evidence in favor of plate tectonics, it is more in their interest to embrace it. That way they can account for all the evidence in favor of plate tectonics, claim that it is consistant with their flood model, and not need any more water than is presently on the planet. The only problem is cramming all of geologic history, all the tectonic movement on every fault in the world, into the flood year. But if you can think that the oceans covered Mt. everest, why not.

Edited by bdfoster, : No reason given.

Edited by bdfoster, : No reason given.


Brent
This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by EighteenDelta, posted 09-13-2007 1:01 PM EighteenDelta has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by Chiroptera, posted 09-13-2007 1:31 PM bdfoster has not yet responded
 Message 215 by jar, posted 09-13-2007 1:33 PM bdfoster has responded
 Message 216 by bluegenes, posted 09-13-2007 1:34 PM bdfoster has not yet responded

Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6532
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003


Message 214 of 372 (421640)
09-13-2007 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by bdfoster
09-13-2007 1:22 PM


Re: Where the water came from and went.
Heh. Very similar to their about-face in regards "micro"evolution. At first opposed to the theory of evolution in its entirety, they realized that they couldn't really dispute the evidence for speciation -- and then suddenly they realized that if they embraced it, then they could take care of the dilemma of cramming all those species into that big boat. Namely, Noah actually only took about two dozen pairs of animals, one for each of the phyla, which then hypermicroevolved into all the species we see.


I could tell you what I've read about evolution, the big-bang, super-universes, quantum foam, and all that stuff. Eventually you'd ask a question I can't answer, then I'd have to go look it up. Even If I had the time for that shit, in the end you'd ask a question science hasn't answered yet. So let's save time and skip ahead to "I don't know." -- jhuger
This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by bdfoster, posted 09-13-2007 1:22 PM bdfoster has not yet responded

jar
Member
Posts: 30936
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 215 of 372 (421641)
09-13-2007 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by bdfoster
09-13-2007 1:22 PM


Re: Where the water came from and went.
The only problem is cramming all of geologic history, all the tectonic movement on every fault in the world, into the flood year.

Question for the geologist.

If we raise Mt. Everest in one year, what would the composition of the rock look like? How much internal heat would be generated within the structure itself and what would the resulting material look like?


Aslan is not a Tame Lion
This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by bdfoster, posted 09-13-2007 1:22 PM bdfoster has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 224 by bdfoster, posted 09-14-2007 1:53 PM jar has not yet responded

bluegenes
Member (Idle past 588 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 216 of 372 (421642)
09-13-2007 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by bdfoster
09-13-2007 1:22 PM


Re: Where the water came from and went.
The only problem is cramming all of geologic history, all the tectonic movement on every fault in the world, into the flood year.

I don't suffer from sea-sickness, but I wouldn't have wanted to be on the Ark with all that going on underneath me.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by bdfoster, posted 09-13-2007 1:22 PM bdfoster has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by RAZD, posted 09-13-2007 3:28 PM bluegenes has responded

RAZD
Member
Posts: 19819
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 217 of 372 (421649)
09-13-2007 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by bluegenes
09-13-2007 1:34 PM


And the record of all this is .... in what book?
I don't suffer from sea-sickness, but I wouldn't have wanted to be on the Ark with all that going on underneath me.

Or after it landed if the continents were still combined then (gets animals from ark to australia, new zealand, hawaii, etc). Hyper-tectonics anyone?

Heh. Of course all those earthquakes, shifting landmass, hyperevolution of species were recorded too ... :rolleyes:

Enjoy.

Edited by RAZD, : subtitle


Join the effort to unravel AIDS/HIV, unfold Proteomes, fight Cancer,
compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click)


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by bluegenes, posted 09-13-2007 1:34 PM bluegenes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by dwise1, posted 09-13-2007 3:31 PM RAZD has responded
 Message 220 by bluegenes, posted 09-13-2007 6:07 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

dwise1
Member
Posts: 3409
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 8.3


Message 218 of 372 (421650)
09-13-2007 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by RAZD
09-13-2007 3:28 PM


Re: And the record of all this is .... ?
From my quotes page, file:///C:/otros/pc14402/dcw/page/working/dwise1/cre_ev/quotes.html#MILNE:
quote:
Attributed to David Milne by Fred Edwords, 1984:
"Creationism is more fun than science!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by RAZD, posted 09-13-2007 3:28 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by RAZD, posted 09-13-2007 3:58 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19819
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 219 of 372 (421653)
09-13-2007 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by dwise1
09-13-2007 3:31 PM


and the fun keeps coming ...
The neat part about the gravity control hypothesis, is that each species as it travels to it's new habitat can be protected by a gravity well so that there is no cross-over of species that shouldn't be there.

(Of course there should also be evidence of these well tracks across the bottom of the oceans, but that just needs a different interpretation of what the bottom sediment covers ...)

All's 'well' that ends 'well'?

Enjoy.


Join the effort to unravel AIDS/HIV, unfold Proteomes, fight Cancer,
compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click)


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by dwise1, posted 09-13-2007 3:31 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

bluegenes
Member (Idle past 588 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 220 of 372 (421674)
09-13-2007 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by RAZD
09-13-2007 3:28 PM


Re: And the record of all this is .... in what book?
RAZD writes:

Or after it landed if the continents were still combined then..

I happen to know that Noah and his family all came straight to this island, at that stage, and started breeding like rabbits. That's because they had to start building hundreds of stone circles (900 known) and do numerous extensive mining operations, build thousands of burial mounds, set up 40,000 monoliths, and till thousands of neolithic fields. So, the rest of the world was empty for a while, post flood.

(I'm a founder member of the YEC Post Flood Speculative Archaeological Society. Anyone care to join? It's free, and it's fun, and, of course, no qualifications in the field are required).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by RAZD, posted 09-13-2007 3:28 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

The Matt
Member (Idle past 3653 days)
Posts: 99
From: U.K.
Joined: 06-07-2007


Message 221 of 372 (421675)
09-13-2007 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by RAZD
09-13-2007 12:39 PM


Re: Where the water came from and went.
Doesn't this kind of negate the need for 40 days and nights of rain? And you'd think the noticeably hummocky water would draw comment too...
This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by RAZD, posted 09-13-2007 12:39 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by RAZD, posted 09-13-2007 7:23 PM The Matt has not yet responded

RAZD
Member
Posts: 19819
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 222 of 372 (421677)
09-13-2007 7:23 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by The Matt
09-13-2007 6:13 PM


The fluxed gravity flood theory
Doesn't this kind of negate the need for 40 days and nights of rain? And you'd think the noticeably hummocky water would draw comment too...

But that's the real beauty of the theory: the storm makes the "hummocky water" appear normal (and how "hummocky" it would be depends on location and visibility - a couple miles tops. See below). They aren't necessarily linked after all:

http://www.genesis.net.au/%7Ebible/kjv/genesis/

quote:
6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

7:4 ... and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.


{abe}
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean

quote:
An ocean (from Ωκεανός, Okeanos (Oceanus) in Greek) is a major body of saline water, and a principal component of the hydrosphere. Approximately 71% of the Earth's surface (an area of some 361 million square kilometers) is covered by ocean, a continuous body of water that is customarily divided into several principal oceans and smaller seas. More than half of this area is over 3,000 meters (9,800 ft) deep.

The area of the World Ocean is 361 million square kilometers (139 million sq mi),[4] its volume is approximately 1,300 million cubic kilometers (310 million cu mi)[5], and its average depth is 3,790 meters (12,430 ft).[4] Nearly half of the world's marine waters are over 3,000 meters (9,800 ft) deep.[2] The vast expanses of deep ocean (anything below 200m) cover about 64% of the Earth's surface.[6] This does not include seas not connected to the World Ocean, such as the Caspian Sea.


So 71% of the surface is on average 12,430 ft, so spreading that out to 100% of the surface would mean the average depth would be 8,825 ft (1.67 miles). That would take out most of the "hummocky" effect. Peaks like the Himalayas (Everest etc) would be averaged out into one huge slow rising mound hard to distinguish from the curvature of the earth.

Fujiyama and Kilimanjaro might be seen as hills of water, but this would mean the ark was near them.
{/abe}

Enjoy.

Edited by RAZD, : {abe} section

Edited by RAZD, : mtns


Join the effort to unravel AIDS/HIV, unfold Proteomes, fight Cancer,
compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click)


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by The Matt, posted 09-13-2007 6:13 PM The Matt has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by EighteenDelta, posted 09-14-2007 2:04 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

Admin
Director
Posts: 12591
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 223 of 372 (421740)
09-14-2007 7:38 AM
Reply to: Message 210 by bluegenes
09-13-2007 12:51 PM


Re: Where the water came from and went.
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them.

Thomas Jefferson

This is just so true, but nonetheless we require that all ideas be seriously entertained here.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by bluegenes, posted 09-13-2007 12:51 PM bluegenes has not yet responded

  
bdfoster
Member (Idle past 2990 days)
Posts: 60
From: Riverside, CA
Joined: 05-09-2007


Message 224 of 372 (421793)
09-14-2007 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by jar
09-13-2007 1:33 PM


Re: Where the water came from and went.
Frictional heating is a huge problem for rapid plate tectonics. No doubt movement along thousands of individual faults and fractures that contributed the Uplift of Mt Everest and the Himallayas, probably millions of seismic events. When you've got 20 million years to accomplish the uplift it's no problem but if all that movement happens in one year, the problem is no longer "where did the water go?", it's "where did the energy go?" If all the crustal movements evident in the geologic record occurred in a short time you would expect widespread frictional melting, which is actually not all that common in the geological record.


Brent
This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by jar, posted 09-13-2007 1:33 PM jar has not yet responded

EighteenDelta
Inactive Member


Message 225 of 372 (421794)
09-14-2007 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by RAZD
09-13-2007 7:23 PM


Re: The fluxed gravity flood theory
So far RAZD is the only one to even offer an explanation, none of our resident believers have stepped up. Obviously we will have difficulty discussing the flood geology myth if it remains one sided. Rob is back, yet he has failed to defend his belief, I do hope he can find the time to come and enlighten us.


"Debate is an art form. It is about the winning of arguments. It is not about the discovery of truth. There are certain rules and procedures to debate that really have nothing to do with establishing fact — which creationists have mastered. Some of those rules are: never say anything positive about your own position because it can be attacked, but chip away at what appear to be the weaknesses in your opponent's position. They are good at that. I don't think I could beat the creationists at debate. I can tie them. But in courtrooms they are terrible, because in courtrooms you cannot give speeches. In a courtroom you have to answer direct questions about the positive status of your belief. We destroyed them in Arkansas. On the second day of the two-week trial we had our victory party!"
-Stephen Jay Gould
This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by RAZD, posted 09-13-2007 7:23 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

RewPrev1
...
1314
15
1617
...
25NextFF
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2019