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Member (Idle past 1467 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
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Author | Topic: People - I /was/ a Christian | |||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: While I wasn't encouraged to question faith, really, I was raised a Catholic, so was not taught that any of that stuff was literally true, but were mythical stories and/or metaphor. It didn't make a difference that the Catholic church had no problem with science. There were plenty enough strange, irrational, and damaging ideas to reject even without the literalism. I think the only church I might have continued to attend if I had been raised in it would have been Unitarian Universalist.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Sure I did. I grew out of it, just like you grew out of having faith in Father Christmas.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
I think it is so funny how the only people who try to tell me what I know, think, feel, or believe, now or in the past, or even will or will not in the future, are believers.
I guess people like you and mike just get used to thinking you know things when they are merely made up or imagined.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Don't bother giving buzsaw the facts about the standard of living of Christian vs. Atheist countries, and how the Atheist (and liberal) places are much nicer places to live.
He's been shown he is very wrong on this point many times before, yet he repeats the same wrong statements over and over agiain. But that's what Buzsaw does.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Truth.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Yeah, and you also base your opinion on the state of the entire world's climate by looking at how things are growing on your own property.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Well, you did think that God was wanting you to read a certain part of your bible, when all that was really happening was that the binding of the book was creased at that place. Maybe "obtuse" isn't the right word.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Yeah, but... So? It doesn't make it any less irrational.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Non Sequitor.
quote: I really have no idea what this has to do with anything.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Well, this is what I notice about posters here at EvC.
There are people who seem to, as a group, nearly always have their facts straight about science, history, and just about any other subject they choose to inform themselves about. They tend to be nimble thinkers and articulate writers, able to see many nuances and able to tolerate ambiguity and uncertainty. They nearly always seem to be on the side of human rights, freedom, and fairness for everyone, and who seem happier, less judgemental, more forgiving and accepting and more generous towards their fellow human beings. There is another group which I notice seems to be wrong over and over again when it comes to science, history, and many other subjects, and rarely do they appear to be terribly concerned with their lack of accurate information. These people tend to debate issues poorly and illogically, leaving gaping holes in their arguments which are easily ripped apart. They seem to be a strange combination of ignorance and arrogance; both fearful and overconfident. They tend to see the world in black and white, good and evil. They tend to have a strong need for some kind of authority figure to tell them how to live and what to think. They tend to be less tolerant and more small-minded; less generous, less apt to want others to have freedom and more apt to embrace authoritarianism. They tend to be more sexist and racist and in general, be more bigoted. Guess which group is more attractive to me? Edited by nator, : No reason given. Edited by nator, : No reason given.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Is it possible that you are wrong about that?
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: The thing that most believers are not aware of, though, is the very strong human ability to deceive ourselves through various sorts of bias and selective thinking. We like to protect our cherished beliefs in order to avoid psychic pain, and many people will go to great mental lengths to do so, even when they must deny reality to do so. It is like the mother who, in retrospect, realizes how obvious the signs were that her new boyfriend was molesting her daughter. At the time it was happening, however, she would have denied the very possibility as absurd, even though the evidence was right there in front of her all the time. She simply chose to ignore the obvious, since it would have been too painful to accept the truth.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: So when Buz condemns all Muslims for the behavior of a minority, you should be right there, correcting him and telling him that he's wrong, every time. Right? Funny that I don't remember you doing that.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
The thing that most believers are not aware of, though, is the very strong human ability to deceive ourselves through various sorts of bias and selective thinking. quote: There is reason to think that it tends to affect religious people more than it does the non-religious. People who have come to Atheism through rational, logical, deliberate examination of the evidence tend to use that sort of thought processes in most aspects of their lives. IOW, religious people who reject science and scientific thinking (like most of the fundies here) are not at all likely to even be aware of such biases in the first place, let alone take measures to combat them in themselves.
quote: Most people definitely do, though. Certainly, the millions of people who believe in Astrology, or dowsing, or that Saddam Hussein was involved in the WTC attacks, or that Aliens abduct people are deluded. Everyone has false memories of things that never happened, or have no memory of things that did, because our brains make mistakes.
quote: Absolutely, and I strongly suspect that those who embrace magical thinking are far less likely to be aware of such bias, let alone be able to counterract it in themselves. It really does take a lot of education in logic and even more dicipline to not come to sloppy, biased conclusions about almost anything.
quote: Well, the objective is to always maintain doubt, do not allow yourself to believe without evidence. To quote Feynman: The first principle is that you must not fool yourself -- and you are the easiest person to fool. Edited by nator, : No reason given.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: When he characterizes Islam as a violent religion because of the violent behavior of a few of Islam's followers, he most certainly is condemning all Muslims. He is doing exactly what you called "flawed reasoning" and "wrong".
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