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Author Topic:   Proof for God's Non-existance?
bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2505 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 142 of 317 (421267)
09-11-2007 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by pbee
09-11-2007 7:25 PM


Re: God the Fictional Character
pbee writes:
Your attempt at age dismissal is perhaps the most ridiculous move to gain credibility on a topic I have seen to date.
And:
Scriptural evidence is as good as any archaeological artifact.
To you, ancient texts with lots of magic in them should be viewed as historical. Not, as I would think, a mixture of history and myth. So you would perhaps consider Homer's Odyssey (700 BC aprox.) to be true, magic, Gods, and all. Troy and Ithica existed, after all.
Or do Jewish myths, for some reason (or lack thereof), get special status in your mind? And if so, why? Could blind faith and desire be distorting your view?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by pbee, posted 09-11-2007 7:25 PM pbee has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by pbee, posted 09-11-2007 8:22 PM bluegenes has replied

bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2505 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 150 of 317 (421301)
09-11-2007 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by pbee
09-11-2007 8:22 PM


Re: God the Fictional Character
pbee writes:
It is all to common for flamboyants to come along and pepper the road with loose claims without ever lifting a finger to consider the underlying evidence which surround God's existence.
What underlying evidence. Why do you reject the Gods of the Greeks, Gods that they wrote about, and accept the God of the Jews on the basis of their writings?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by pbee, posted 09-11-2007 8:22 PM pbee has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by pbee, posted 09-11-2007 10:52 PM bluegenes has replied

bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2505 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 152 of 317 (421303)
09-11-2007 10:59 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by pbee
09-11-2007 10:52 PM


Re: God the Fictional Character
pbees writes:
God of the Jews? Isn't that a bit racist? It seems as though God is available to all people and not races as some would believe.
Of course it's racist. More than a bit. The God of the Bible favours his chosen tribe, and chooses to communicate with them to the exclusion of all others, and helps them in conflicts with their enemies.
Don't blame me. I didn't invent him, and I don't believe in him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by pbee, posted 09-11-2007 10:52 PM pbee has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by pbee, posted 09-11-2007 11:08 PM bluegenes has replied

bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2505 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 154 of 317 (421308)
09-11-2007 11:41 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by pbee
09-11-2007 11:08 PM


Re: God the Fictional Character
It would seem as though racism is carried on by people and not God as you claim.
Racism is certainly carried on by people, and if you'd thought about it, I'd hardly be likely to claim that it's literally carried on by an entity that I don't believe exists, would I?
Tribal racists, like Moses, would push the idea of the racist God that existed in their minds. When Moses wants his people to commit genocide, the victim tribe is described as having "offended God", for example.
In reality, the incident may well have been about grabbing land from other people. The fictional God would, of course, have promised the land to the tribe who invented him.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by Rahvin, posted 09-12-2007 10:30 AM bluegenes has not replied

bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2505 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 167 of 317 (421473)
09-12-2007 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
09-07-2007 6:25 PM


Re: the atheist challenge
Jon writes:
Atheists would say there is no-God.
Not this one. I would say I don't believe in any Gods.
And to the Theist they would inquire on his proof that there is-God.
Not I, particularly, unless perhaps the theist claims to have proof and I'm curious or want a good laugh, but intelligent theists don't claim to have proof. I sometimes ask people why they believe in specific, described Gods, like the Abrahamic God, but that's not the same as asking them for proof.
But I would like to wonder if Atheists can walk their own walk, practice what they preach.
Practice your version of what we preach, you mean. We're a broad church, anyway. I think it would be rare for an atheist to claim proof of no God. Many might claim that absence of evidence for a God is evidence of absence, but the words "evidence" and "proof" aren't the same, are they?
There's absence of evidence for the existence of elves, but no-one has proof of their non-existence.
I would like any Atheists to post their proof of God's non-existence in this thread.
There are several billion mono-theists on this planet, all believing in Gods, so which one of the several billion Gods are you referring to?
Did you mean "proof that there's no God of any kind"?
If so, then it's the same as for the elves mentioned above, so obviously impossible to prove that one wonders why someone would bother to ask such a question.
Then, we can evaluate each piece of evidence just like for Theists, and determine if the evidence is any good or not.
And now you're talking about evidence, not proof. If you're referring to the type of non-interventionist creator Deity who just creates the universe as it is, however that is, then the only evidence against such an entity is the absence of evidence for it, meaning that, to present human knowledge, we can give this God about the same status of likelihood of existence as the undefined elves I mentioned above.
On the other extreme, silly Gods like the God of the flat-earthers, who created this planet flat, can effectively be disproved, but I don't think that's the type of God you meant.
Anything in between the two, then the more specific and described the God gets, the more evidence there tends to be against it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 09-07-2007 6:25 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by Jon, posted 09-13-2007 2:38 AM bluegenes has replied

bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2505 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 173 of 317 (421536)
09-13-2007 3:54 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by Jon
09-13-2007 2:38 AM


Re: the atheist challenge
jon writes:
I asked the question to point out that Atheists, by the definition of Wikipedia, and not of the type you proclaim to be in particular, declare as truth something which cannot be proven, and so are as guilty as any Theist in pretending it is a truth, despite lack of evidence.
wiki writes:
Atheism, as a philosophical view, is the position that either affirms the nonexistence of gods or rejects theism. When defined more broadly, atheism is the absence of belief in deities, alternatively called nontheism. Although atheists are commonly assumed to be irreligious, some religions have been characterized as atheistic because of their lack of belief in a personal god.
Did you miss the "either or" in the first sentence, and not read the second? I sometimes call myself a non-theist.
A simple definition like "atheism affirms the nonexistence of Gods" is the type of thing that theists and agnostics like when they want to pretend that atheism is a faith, which seems to be what you're aiming at. For me, the absence of belief in deities, wiki's broad definition, is the most appropriate. If you don't believe in any deities at this moment, Jon, you are an atheist of sorts, and a non-theist.
Have any of the self-described atheists who've answered your post claimed that they could prove no-God?
jon writes:
bluegenes writes:
On the other extreme, silly Gods like the God of the flat-earthers, who created this planet flat, can effectively be disproved, but I don't think that's the type of God you meant.
This God cannot be disproven either.
By your logic, a Goddess with red hair who created you as a nine foot tall women with wings cannot be disproven, either. If we're sure that you're not a nine foot tall women with wings, there could still be plenty of non-disproven Goddesses with red hair, but that particular one is non-existent.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Jon, posted 09-13-2007 2:38 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by Jon, posted 09-13-2007 1:28 PM bluegenes has replied

bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2505 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 176 of 317 (421659)
09-13-2007 4:19 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Jon
09-13-2007 1:28 PM


Re: the atheist challenge
It's the definition given by Wikipedia, and the definition that I said we would be using for this thread.
I replied directly to your O.P. in order to point out that atheists don't think that they can prove no-God. If you wanted only atheists who fit your preferred definition to participate, you should've stated that in the O.P., not further down the thread.
Essentially, it seems that you want to define atheists as morons who think they can prove no-God, in order to prove that they're morons who think that they can prove no-God.
What good is the definition of one word if it cannot be used to distinguish it from another word by that same definition?
What you're doing is just re-defining people like Bertrand Russell, Richard Dawkins, and all other well known atheists as agnostics, against the common usage, meaning that all non-believers would end up described as agnostics, leaving no room for differences in emphasis.
As you say, this is not about definitions, so enjoy yourself with the atheists who think that they can prove "no-God", and I'll leave you on your own intellectual level.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Jon, posted 09-13-2007 1:28 PM Jon has not replied

bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2505 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 277 of 317 (422300)
09-16-2007 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by pbee
09-16-2007 4:23 PM


Re: Still trying to change the subject
pbee writes:
To my knowledge. it is possible that fairies exist, I have never looked into it. As for James Bond, I was under the impression that his identity rest solely as a movie character.
James Bond is in lots of books, as well, so we have good written evidence for his existence. If it's written in a book, it's evidence, as you know. Anyway, how could we have won the cold war if he didn't exist?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by pbee, posted 09-16-2007 4:23 PM pbee has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by crashfrog, posted 09-16-2007 7:57 PM bluegenes has not replied

bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2505 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 281 of 317 (422315)
09-16-2007 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 280 by ringo
09-16-2007 8:01 PM


Ringo writes:
Why do I fail to observe God in my fridge if He's "everywhere"? If I fail to observe God, in fact anywhere, why?
He's described several times in the Bible as being invisible, which might explain his apparent absence from your fridge.
On one occasion, Moses sees the invisible, which is a pretty impressive feat on his part, IMO.
Not being Moses, you could always look for his footprints in the butter, I suppose.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by ringo, posted 09-16-2007 8:01 PM ringo has not replied

bluegenes
Member (Idle past 2505 days)
Posts: 3119
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 287 of 317 (422326)
09-16-2007 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 284 by ringo
09-16-2007 8:49 PM


Ringo writes:
You have got to be kidding. My fridge is chock-full of atoms.
Too right. He walked into that one. In fact, he said "atoms" plural, which you can see, otherwise all would be darkness in the universe!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by ringo, posted 09-16-2007 8:49 PM ringo has not replied

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