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Author | Topic: Proof for God's Non-existance? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
But we have only the claims made by the authors (unknown) of the stories. There is no provenance.
Otherwise, public record systems would all be useless. Nonsense. Public records are only valuable when they can be independently verified. They MUST have a provenance. By your criteria the tale of Ahmad ibn Fadlan and the wendol carries the same authority. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Well for starters, public records do not need to be independently verified as you state. We know this because there are millions of documents, grants , deeds, birth certificates etc. that have no supporting evidence. LOL Nonsense. If you look you will find that everyone of them DOES have a provenance. Each of those you mentioned requires independent verification, so Judge, Doctor, Recorder, Lawyer or Inspector must sign off on them, independently confirming their veracity.
I for one would never discount other claims. At least not without evaluating them personally. LOL. Right, we need to evaluate them based on external evidence. That is what you have never presented. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Sorry but all you seem to be doing is trying to palm the pea in the hope that no one notices.
In reference to historical records I said
quote: To which your replied:
If you encounter a historical document containing claims and accounts dating hundreds or even thousands of years in the past, are you under the impression that we are no longer capable of determining it's validity? For the same reasons public record systems safeguard thousands upon thousands of records without provenance or authentication. It is because documents serve as evidence against other documents(cross reference). So you see, the thought that documents or claims which fall out of your own capacity to evaluate, has no real bearing on there value or validity. I'm sorry but that is a silly, irrelevant, incorrect, contradictory and misrepresentative paragraph all at once. I would not have thought that possible.
If you encounter a historical document containing claims and accounts dating hundreds or even thousands of years in the past, are you under the impression that we are no longer capable of determining it's validity? No, of course not. That is why I said that you check its validity by testing it against outside evidence, external material. It is that outside evidence, that external material that you have NEVER presented.
For the same reasons public record systems safeguard thousands upon thousands of records without provenance or authentication. Whether or not a record is preserved is irrelevant. The fact that some record is there tells us nothing about whether or not it is factual. You even go on and point out exactly what I have been saying all along, to wit:
It is because documents serve as evidence against other documents(cross reference). So you see, the thought that documents or claims which fall out of your own capacity to evaluate, has no real bearing on there value or validity. Outside evidence, external material, those things which can be tested to determine the possible validity of a document. It is that outside evidence, the external material, that you have never presented. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Which was clearly wrong where public records and archives are concerned. Um, no it is not. Public records are vetted, notarized, signed off by an inspector, a judge, a doctor, a coroner.
It's quite simple really. The claim or document(scripture), was written and preserved throughout history as a record. The evidence is the fact that we exist today. Um, no. The fact that we exist today is evidence that we exist today. It in no way validates much else.
If you are saying that we are incapable of evaluating the validity of this claim due to the fact that it has long past, then you are wrong. Not at all. I say we can and have tested the validity of the "Bible" (as though such a thing as "The Bible" even existed) and it has been shown to be inaccurate on many historical issues. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Well that partially true. Now what about the older records? Are you under the impression that they are discarded because they were issued or created prior to notarization and authentication? Not at all. But their validity is tested against outside evidence, external material, and that is what you have never produced. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Are you under the impression that it is my responsibility to provide external evidence for this claim? Um, yes.
The claim was made that God created the Heavens and the Earth. The evidence is that we exist today. So I wonder now, if anyone is actually going to present evidence to contradict this claim or are we going to continue on circumventing the issue. LOL Many fables and many authors have claimed that some god did something or the other. So far no evidence has been presented to support such claims. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
I'm sorry but the validity of any claim is based on testing that claim against outside evidence and external material.
And that is what you have never produced. You have never produced any evidence that the so called "entity" exists or the the so called "entity" even made such a claim. All you have presented is evidence that the authors of stories made the claim that such an "entity exists" and that "the entity made such a claim". Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
However, in this case, God created the Heavens and the earth, and the earth exists. So we do have a form of evidence for that claim. False. You have presented no evidence that God exists or that God created the heavens and the earth. The fact that the earth exists is only evidence that the earth exists. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
You are still trying to misdirect the audiences attention while you change the topic.
You have asserted that some entity claimed to have created the universe. So far you have still never presented any evidence that that such an entity exists or that such an entity made such a claim. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
The earth exists as do we, just as God the entity claimed. Can you prove Him wrong? You have still failed to present any evidence that God exists or that God made such a claim. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
What I did do however, was present you with the fact that we have numerous written claims that God does exist. That is irrelevant. We have claims that fairies exist and that James Bond exists.
In light of these claims, can you provide evidence that He does not exist? Again, irrelevant. Claims themselves are worthless unless supported by confirming external material and outside evidence. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Still more false assertions.
We all know the claims were cross referenced by others and in harmony with external evidence(historical). You are still just making totally false assertion. No we do not "all know the claims were cross referenced by others and in harmony with external evidence(historical)" and we also know that many of the so called historical incidents in the so called Bible are simply false. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Then my fridge is chock-full of God. Observations don't have to be direct. you know. But anyone can confirm that his fridge is full of atoms. That is not true of your assertion. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Prior to and following the validation of atoms, could we confirm any atoms were in the fridge? No, but knowledge has evolved. For example, when we were more ignorant it was reasonable to think that the Bible was an accurate history. Now we know that much of what is reported in the various Bible stories are simply factually wrong. As we learn more knowledge evolves. Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
The Flood, 6 Day Creation, GOE, Exodus, Flood, Conquest of Canaan ... for starters.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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