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Author
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Topic: Original Sin
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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4921 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: 05-26-2005
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Re: Doctrine of Original Sin
There is a difference between the "Doctrine of Original Sin" and saying that Adam's sin affected mankind. I don't see the difference. Some forms of the idea of the doctrine of Original Sin presented by Augustine and later by Reformed thinkers is different, but some other ideas are very similar. I think, for instance, that I hold to the idea of Original Sin, but do not think that sin is imputed to babies. They have a sin nature. That's obvious, but they also have a godly love nature and the presence of God in their nature from birth. So they have both. If you have ever had children, you know this. They are selfish, and yet can be possessed with a love and purity at the same time.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 82 by purpledawn, posted 01-02-2006 8:29 AM | | purpledawn has not replied |
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randman
Suspended Member (Idle past 4921 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: 05-26-2005
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Message 94 of 103 (275233)
01-03-2006 1:39 AM
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Reply to: Message 90 by ramoss
01-02-2006 10:52 PM
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Re: Doctrine of Original Sin
The Arminian doctrine of Original Sin is almost identical.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 90 by ramoss, posted 01-02-2006 10:52 PM | | ramoss has not replied |
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ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4132 days) Posts: 1119 From: Topeka,kansas Joined: 06-06-2005
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Message 95 of 103 (275248)
01-03-2006 2:51 AM
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Reply to: Message 92 by Faith
01-03-2006 1:35 AM
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Re: Doctrine of Original Sin
did you even bother to read what i wrote? i said it has nothing to do with genetics when it comes to this, do I have to repeat what i just wrote please read what i wrote about the belief, communication with god, then not having that communication would change us, not in the way you want it to be but it would change us, god cursed us with having to work for what we want, does that sound like some sort of genetic change?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 92 by Faith, posted 01-03-2006 1:35 AM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 97 by Faith, posted 01-03-2006 3:35 AM | | ReverendDG has not replied |
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ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4132 days) Posts: 1119 From: Topeka,kansas Joined: 06-06-2005
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Message 96 of 103 (275249)
01-03-2006 2:59 AM
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Reply to: Message 94 by randman
01-03-2006 1:39 AM
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Re: Doctrine of Original Sin
I wonder if you read what you are claiming, arminianism doesn't believe in anything like the jews do, they believe that the only way for man to do good is through the grace of god, does that sound anything like what ramoss just said? as we keep saying the jews don't believe in any form of OS, since the belief is man is created with potencal for good and evil acts, no one is born with a nature to inclined to sin anymore than automaticly do good deeds. it seems you want to equate some christian belief to some jewish belief, because it will validate your beliefs that genesis shows OS
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 94 by randman, posted 01-03-2006 1:39 AM | | randman has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 98 by randman, posted 01-03-2006 10:19 AM | | ReverendDG has replied |
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Faith
Suspended Member (Idle past 1466 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Re: Doctrine of Original Sin
OK, I see your point, you are talking about something that originates in God, not in humanity.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 95 by ReverendDG, posted 01-03-2006 2:51 AM | | ReverendDG has not replied |
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randman
Suspended Member (Idle past 4921 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: 05-26-2005
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Re: Doctrine of Original Sin
Rev, Arminianism admits God gives grace though to all men to be capable of and to do good things. So in context, it is about the same.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 96 by ReverendDG, posted 01-03-2006 2:59 AM | | ReverendDG has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 99 by ReverendDG, posted 01-03-2006 4:49 PM | | randman has not replied |
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ReverendDG
Member (Idle past 4132 days) Posts: 1119 From: Topeka,kansas Joined: 06-06-2005
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Message 99 of 103 (275424)
01-03-2006 4:49 PM
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Reply to: Message 98 by randman
01-03-2006 10:19 AM
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Re: Doctrine of Original Sin
no it does not, the fact that man can do good or evil in jewish doctrine has nothing to do with gods grace man was created with both good and evil in mind, there is nothing i can see that equates the two, unless you like to do logical contortions, or you believe evil is a taint that we inherient from adam. which we have been saying no, this is purely a christian doctrine with no basis in genesis or relation to jewish doctrine
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 98 by randman, posted 01-03-2006 10:19 AM | | randman has not replied |
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ramoss
Member (Idle past 634 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: 08-11-2004
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Message 100 of 103 (275471)
01-03-2006 6:31 PM
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Reply to: Message 79 by randman
01-02-2006 3:03 AM
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Re: wika is a poor source, but....
Wikpedia is often not a good source. If you read JEWISH sources about original sin, one thing there it will be stated over and over again. The Jewish faith does NOT believe in Original Sin. Everyone is born innocent. I gave a number of Jewish sources that agree with that. It sounds to me that the author of the Wikepdia article was using a Christian take on the jewish concept. And yes, curcumstances are 'inherited'.. beause someone is born into an imperfect world, but I discussed that previously. The PERSON is born innocent.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 79 by randman, posted 01-02-2006 3:03 AM | | randman has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18308 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 101 of 103 (422747)
09-18-2007 6:35 AM
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Reply to: Message 23 by sidelined
01-08-2005 12:31 PM
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Who's Responsible?
sidelined writes: Why is god exempt from the responsibility issue? We could well say that God is responsible for everything, but I doubt if we could pursue Him in court!  I now believe that we are responsible to live our lives to the best of our ability, taking into account certain daily circumstances and seeking not so much to excuse ourselves for our imperfect behaviors but to empower ourselves by submitting to God. Some folks go with the philosophy that we are powerless without a Higher Power to guide us. Other folks believe that we should empower ourselves to do the best we can do and not to use any religious metaphors as a crutch. One mans Ball and Chain is another Mans Anchor, I suppose. 
Convictions are very different from intentions. Convictions are something God gives us that we have to do. Intentions are things that we ought to do, but we never follow through with them.* * * * * * * * * *
“The world has achieved brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience. Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants.”--General Omar Bradley
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Homer Simpson: Sometimes, Marge, you just have to go with your gut!
Marge: You *always* go with your gut! How about for once you listen to your brain?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 23 by sidelined, posted 01-08-2005 12:31 PM | | sidelined has not replied |
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pbee
Member (Idle past 6049 days) Posts: 339 Joined: 06-20-2007
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Message 102 of 103 (422772)
09-18-2007 9:53 AM
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Reply to: Message 1 by berberry
01-06-2005 3:40 AM
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What is original sin?The original sin, was actually effectuated in heaven when Satan chose to steal God's mojo and persuade Eve to worship him instead of God. However, some would consider Adam and Eve's sin as the original sin, since it was the root of physical suffering. Why is it a necessary belief to the Chritian experience and is it, like other sins, washed away by the blood of Jesus?If one is to embrace the Christian scriptures then the typical arrangement is to acknowledge the original prophesy given by God following the fall of Adam and Eve. Jesus did wash away the original sin, however the recovery will not take effect until this system has concluded or expired. Since God told Satan that he would allow humans to exist independently(just as Satan promised) and demonstrate the futility of his words. It would also allow everyone the opportunity to choose. Further, if it is washed away by the blood of Jesus, why is it brought up in the first place?There is a great deal of knowledge in the origin of mankind and knowledge is the key to happiness. Once a child is old enough to ask Jesus for forgiveness wouldn't the original sin then be washed away?Since God has demonstrated he is a God of balance, it should come as no surprise that He employed Jesus to pay ransom for Adam and Eve's actions. Through there actions. Adam and Eve lost tainted perfection and brought death and suffering upon all of there offspring. The only way to recovery from this, was to somehow regain or give back the elements which were lost. In this case Jesus perfect life on earth was equal to that of Adam and Eve and therefor worthy of a ransom for their sins. While this system runs its course, we are all entitled to receive forgiveness under God in his name. The permanent redemption will be achieved when God's plan for a perfect world is restored and Jesus hands over the rulership of earth back to God.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by berberry, posted 01-06-2005 3:40 AM | | berberry has not replied |
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1365 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: 05-21-2004
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Message 103 of 103 (422884)
09-18-2007 4:41 PM
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Reply to: Message 102 by pbee
09-18-2007 9:53 AM
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The original sin, was actually effectuated in heaven when Satan chose to steal God's mojo and persuade Eve to worship him instead of God. completely un-biblical.
If one is to embrace the Christian scriptures then the typical arrangement is to acknowledge the original prophesy given by God following the fall of Adam and Eve. not a prophecy, and a misrepresentation of that verse.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 102 by pbee, posted 09-18-2007 9:53 AM | | pbee has not replied |
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