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Author Topic:   Reliable history in the Bible
Force
Inactive Member


Message 271 of 300 (422580)
09-17-2007 7:51 PM
Reply to: Message 270 by ringo
09-17-2007 7:48 PM


Ringo,

I need you to understand that I am aware of Brians direction with his post.


Thanks
trossthree
This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by ringo, posted 09-17-2007 7:48 PM ringo has not yet responded

Force
Inactive Member


Message 272 of 300 (422588)
09-17-2007 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 270 by ringo
09-17-2007 7:48 PM


The Bibles Historical Credibility
Ringo,

Just to show that I am aware of the direction of this thread; I will argue that "some of the Bible may have credible histories".

Histroy Chanel

Edited by AdminNosy, : shorten link


Thanks
trossthree
This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by ringo, posted 09-17-2007 7:48 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by ringo, posted 09-17-2007 8:11 PM Force has responded
 Message 279 by AdminPaul, posted 09-18-2007 2:15 AM Force has responded

ringo
Member
Posts: 16681
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 273 of 300 (422597)
09-17-2007 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 272 by Force
09-17-2007 8:03 PM


Re: The Bibles Historical Credibility
trossthree writes:

Just to show that I am aware of the direction of this thread; I will argue that "some of the Bible may have credible histories".

If you're going to make an argument, please make it here (and in your own words), not by link.

Also, please get on with it. These threads are normally shut down after 300 posts.


“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Force, posted 09-17-2007 8:03 PM Force has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by Force, posted 09-17-2007 8:13 PM ringo has responded

Force
Inactive Member


Message 274 of 300 (422599)
09-17-2007 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by ringo
09-17-2007 8:11 PM


Re: The Bibles Historical Credibility
Ringo,

I made my argument. The link was my support.


Thanks
trossthree
This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by ringo, posted 09-17-2007 8:11 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 275 by ringo, posted 09-17-2007 8:17 PM Force has responded

ringo
Member
Posts: 16681
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 275 of 300 (422600)
09-17-2007 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by Force
09-17-2007 8:13 PM


Re: The Bibles Historical Credibility
trossthree writes:

I made my argument. The link was my support.

You made a statement, not an argument. You need to tell us how your link supports your statement.


“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by Force, posted 09-17-2007 8:13 PM Force has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by Force, posted 09-17-2007 8:51 PM ringo has responded

Force
Inactive Member


Message 276 of 300 (422617)
09-17-2007 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 275 by ringo
09-17-2007 8:17 PM


Re: The Bibles Historical Credibility
Ringo,

Actually I made an argument. However, you seem to agree with me or we would have an argument.


Thanks
trossthree
This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by ringo, posted 09-17-2007 8:17 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by ringo, posted 09-17-2007 8:58 PM Force has responded

ringo
Member
Posts: 16681
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 277 of 300 (422618)
09-17-2007 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 276 by Force
09-17-2007 8:51 PM


Re: The Bibles Historical Credibility
trossthree writes:

... you seem to agree with me or we would have an argument.

Agree with what? I haven't seen anything from you about the topic.

If you have an example of reliable history in the Bible, post it. Give the chapter and verse (preferably quote them) and then explain in your own words what historical/archaeological evidence there is to support it.

Edited by Ringo, : Shpelling.


“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by Force, posted 09-17-2007 8:51 PM Force has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by Force, posted 09-17-2007 9:02 PM ringo has not yet responded

Force
Inactive Member


Message 278 of 300 (422620)
09-17-2007 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by ringo
09-17-2007 8:58 PM


It is fact that the bible has some historical documents
Ringo,

It is fact that the bible has some historical documents. (I reworded it for you =)) The link to my support is located in my original post subtitled "the bibles historical credibility".


Thanks
trossthree
This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by ringo, posted 09-17-2007 8:58 PM ringo has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 280 by Brian, posted 09-18-2007 1:43 PM Force has responded

AdminPaul
Inactive Member


Message 279 of 300 (422725)
09-18-2007 2:15 AM
Reply to: Message 272 by Force
09-17-2007 8:03 PM


Re: The Bibles Historical Credibility
In this forum you are expected to provide your own argument. Links may be used as evidence but simply making an assertion and citing a link is discouraged for anything other than very basic matters. This doesn't qualify - it's the main topic of the thread, not a minor point.

What we'd expect from you is some explanation of what you believe to be reliable history in the Bible, an explanation of the evidence that concludes you to think that - with links used for support or where they provide extra details.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Force, posted 09-17-2007 8:03 PM Force has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by Force, posted 09-18-2007 4:49 PM AdminPaul has not yet responded

Brian
Member (Idle past 3132 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 280 of 300 (422845)
09-18-2007 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by Force
09-17-2007 9:02 PM


Re: It is fact that the bible has some historical documents
It is fact that the bible has some historical documents.

Every document in the Bible is historical, but that doesn't mean that anything in those docs actually happened.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Force, posted 09-17-2007 9:02 PM Force has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 281 by arachnophilia, posted 09-18-2007 4:27 PM Brian has responded
 Message 283 by Force, posted 09-18-2007 4:53 PM Brian has responded

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 151 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 281 of 300 (422878)
09-18-2007 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 280 by Brian
09-18-2007 1:43 PM


Re: It is fact that the bible has some historical documents
brian,

what do you make the texts that appear to be written in the style of a history, such as kings? it is well known that they are biased and dishonest about a few matters -- but so are a lot history texts.


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by Brian, posted 09-18-2007 1:43 PM Brian has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by Brian, posted 09-18-2007 4:58 PM arachnophilia has not yet responded

Force
Inactive Member


Message 282 of 300 (422887)
09-18-2007 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by AdminPaul
09-18-2007 2:15 AM


Re: The Bibles Historical Credibility
AdminPaul,

I know what is expected of me in this EVC forum. Please understand that I agree with Brian's point that the Bible has little reliable historical accounts. My problem is that I don't like the way Brian posted his thread. Brian did'nt have to make any assertions in his original post. Brian could have simply requested that people who believe the Bible has reliable historical accounts to please reply with those accounts.

Instead Brian not only requested others to post information about reliable historical Biblical accounts, but he also made an assertion that archaeological discoveries undermine the reliability of the Bibles historical accounts. I just simply think Brian should have posted some resources for others to read about said archaeoligcal discoveries.

P.S. Paul I am glad to see that you are an admin now. You always were an annoying person to argue with. What I mean is that you always did provide valuable information in previous arguments.

Edited by trossthree, : error


Thanks
trossthree
This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by AdminPaul, posted 09-18-2007 2:15 AM AdminPaul has not yet responded

Force
Inactive Member


Message 283 of 300 (422889)
09-18-2007 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 280 by Brian
09-18-2007 1:43 PM


Re: It is fact that the bible has some historical documents
Brian,

Please read my response to adminpaul.


Thanks
trossthree
This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by Brian, posted 09-18-2007 1:43 PM Brian has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by Brian, posted 09-18-2007 5:06 PM Force has responded

Brian
Member (Idle past 3132 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 284 of 300 (422892)
09-18-2007 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by arachnophilia
09-18-2007 4:27 PM


Re: It is fact that the bible has some historical documents
Hi Arach,

Well at least when we get to Kings we enter an era where there are external texts and other evidence to support parts of the books.

They are certainly written more in the style of what we would call a history, rather than the 'prehistory' books that are written more as mythologies and aetiologies etc.

As you say though, most of the 'histories' of this era are biased and dishonest, no one was writing anything approaching a critical history until Hecataeus, Polybius, and Thucydides came along.

Personally, I define history as 'any text about a past event that has been created by the human mind.' For me, history is not what happened in the past, it is what someone has told us happened in the past, and because all histories are created in the human mind then they are subject to the baises and worldview of the writer. History is what is written on a page, not what happened in the past.

Brian.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by arachnophilia, posted 09-18-2007 4:27 PM arachnophilia has not yet responded

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 3132 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 285 of 300 (422894)
09-18-2007 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by Force
09-18-2007 4:53 PM


Re: It is fact that the bible has some historical documents
Hi T,

If I remember correctly the opening post was a sort of continuation of several discussions, and I had just been discussing several events/archaeological evidence with posters (Jugs was mentioned in the post) on other threads who were aware of the issues surrounding the post.

The post was asking people who claimed that the Bible is reliable in relation to history, and I had heard this so many times that I was asking this claim to be supported.

In regard to providing resources, the point of the thread was to coax believers into studying the bible in an historical context to discover just how accurate the reliability claim was. I was hoping that by starting at Genesis and ticking off what they could support as reliable history that they could see just how silly the claim that the Bible is historically reliable actually is.

Over the last few years I have provided reams of evidence that undermines alleged historical events in the Bible, is there anything in particular you would like some resources for?

Brian.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by Force, posted 09-18-2007 4:53 PM Force has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 286 by Force, posted 09-18-2007 5:11 PM Brian has responded

  
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