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Author Topic:   The C.C.O.I. (Christian Cult Of Ignorance) and Willful Ignorance
jar
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From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 136 of 675 (420363)
09-07-2007 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Thugpreacha
09-07-2007 2:54 PM


Re: What About Prayer?
Okay. So would you say that it is irrelevant whether God is listening and that our focus should be on what we are asking and why?

Yes and what that tells us about what to do next.

Perhaps the question should be:
# Is God Listening? Does It Matter?

Good question. Does it matter? If so, why?


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Thugpreacha
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Posts: 13375
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 137 of 675 (420372)
09-07-2007 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by jar
09-07-2007 3:01 PM


Re: What About Prayer?
Jar writes:

Does it matter? If so, why?

Prayer allows me to have a quiet time of introspection. o reflect on my shortcomings and how I can do better in the future. Prayer allows me to think of others besides myself and to be empathetic.

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jar
Member
Posts: 31771
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 138 of 675 (420377)
09-07-2007 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by Thugpreacha
09-07-2007 3:21 PM


Re: What About Prayer?
But do any of those require anyone, particularly some god to be on the other end?


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 13375
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 139 of 675 (420387)
09-07-2007 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by jar
09-07-2007 3:27 PM


Re: What About Prayer?
If you are asking me whether God is required to exist in order for humans to make a difference in the environment known as reality, the answer is no. My personal belief is that God permeates reality itself, but that is a personal belief and is irrelevant to your question.

Introspection and meditation appear to be capable of solitary reflection.


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Thugpreacha
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Posts: 13375
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
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Message 140 of 675 (422949)
09-18-2007 9:37 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by jar
07-21-2007 9:57 AM


Foreknowledge remix
jar writes:

Phat you keep saying that God has foreknowledge.

In believe that God has foreknowledge, but i confess to not knowing what His foreknowledge is. I can't declare that God fore knowingly creates some people to be damned. IF it turns out that some people do end up damned, I concur that it will be the result of our actions rather than Gods foreknowing.

Does it not make sense that a Creator of all that is seen and unseen who by definition transcends time would not know what is to come, however?

We are only responsible with our behavior in the present moment, however, so we cannot know or determine what God would choose to know or be able to know. Our speculations about Gods modus operendi are just speculations.


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jar
Member
Posts: 31771
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 141 of 675 (422951)
09-18-2007 9:52 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by Thugpreacha
09-18-2007 9:37 PM


Re: Foreknowledge remix
Does God create all?


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Thugpreacha
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Posts: 13375
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 142 of 675 (423021)
09-19-2007 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 141 by jar
09-18-2007 9:52 PM


Re: Foreknowledge remix
This is a good question. Does God create every single darned thing that we can list? In other words, does God create the very train of thought that I am now attempting to verbalize? I shall say not! (I could be wrong, however! :p )

  • Does God directly and continually create the new stars that we observe forming in the known universe? (Or did She set the process in motion? )

    Do you see what I mean? These are questions that I cannot answer. On a cosmic Job Resume, what are the specific qualifications and duties of a Creator? :o


  • This message is a reply to:
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    jar
    Member
    Posts: 31771
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 2.6


    Message 143 of 675 (423041)
    09-19-2007 12:12 PM
    Reply to: Message 142 by Thugpreacha
    09-19-2007 10:00 AM


    Re: Foreknowledge remix
    All that is irrelevant Phat.

    Does God create the critter?


    Aslan is not a Tame Lion

    This message is a reply to:
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    Thugpreacha
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    Posts: 13375
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
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    Message 144 of 675 (423209)
    09-20-2007 8:41 AM
    Reply to: Message 143 by jar
    09-19-2007 12:12 PM


    Re: Foreknowledge remix
    Jar writes:

    Does God create the critter?

    Indirectly, yes. God is the Creator of all that is seen and unseen.

    As a qualifier and again...(this is not irrelevant ) God does not create our thoughts. We do. IMB


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    jar
    Member
    Posts: 31771
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 2.6


    Message 145 of 675 (423221)
    09-20-2007 11:26 AM
    Reply to: Message 144 by Thugpreacha
    09-20-2007 8:41 AM


    Re: Foreknowledge remix
    As a qualifier and again...(this is not irrelevant ) God does not create our thoughts. We do. IMB

    But that IS irrelvant.

    If God foreknows our actions then it does not matter is we think we create them.

    AbE:

    let me try again to step you through this.

    If your god is the Creator
    and your god foreknows everything you will do
    and your god goes ahead and creates you knowing that you will be damned
    then your god is EVIL.

    It doesn't matter who makes the choices, if your god foreknows what those choices will be and knows they will lead to you being damned, and still creates you, then your god is EVIL.

    Edited by jar, : try to expand the explanation

    Edited by jar, : appalin spallin


    Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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    jar
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    Posts: 31771
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
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    Message 146 of 675 (423486)
    09-22-2007 2:35 PM
    Reply to: Message 144 by Thugpreacha
    09-20-2007 8:41 AM


    The Evil theology of Dr. James Montgomery Boice
    Recently in Chat you placed one of the televangelists, Dr. James Montgomery Boice, on the table for discussion. A hallmark and cornerstone of his preaching is

    God alone is sovereign over all of His creation, and that includes individual acts of salvation.

    That single sentence IMHO shows the absolute evil nature of both the Evangelical God as created by Dr. James Montgomery Boice and others, and the total bankruptcy and despicable nature of such preachers.

    In that oe sentence JMB proclaims that the god of JMB is the one creator, that the god of JMB creates everything and that the god of JMB then picks and chooses and is solely responsible for individual acts of salvation.

    If what he says is true, then that god can only be judged evil.

    To reapeat what JMB says:

    God alone is sovereign over all of His creation, and that includes individual acts of salvation.

    JMB's god creates all. JMBs god then picks from what he has created and individually grants salvation.

    However, JMB's god still created all. It is the old image of the drought de seigneur, the feudal idea that the noble has total rights over those under him to use, kill, rape, pillage as he wishes.

    JMB's god is but a reversion to that old idea, one that certainly was abandoned by the mid 1700s everywhere but in religion.

    It is the old idea that your life is only continued by the whim of the overlord and so forfeit at that overlord's whim.

    Edited by jar, : fix subtitle


    Aslan is not a Tame Lion

    This message is a reply to:
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    Quetzal
    Member (Idle past 4212 days)
    Posts: 3228
    Joined: 01-09-2002


    Message 147 of 675 (423541)
    09-22-2007 7:28 PM
    Reply to: Message 146 by jar
    09-22-2007 2:35 PM


    Re: The Evil theology of Dr. James Montgomery Boice
    Isn't he just expressing the Calvanist viewpoint? It doesn't matter what you do or who you are, your salvation etc is pre-ordained at birth (or before)? You can never know whether you are one of the elect. In essence, it doesn't strike me as any more evil than any of the other ultra-calvanist views. Just really extreme (and, as you know, IMO on the nuttier end of Protestantism).

    Edited by Admin, : Hide content of post by non-participant.


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    Thugpreacha
    Member
    Posts: 13375
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 148 of 675 (423641)
    09-23-2007 12:54 PM
    Reply to: Message 146 by jar
    09-22-2007 2:35 PM


    Re: The Evil theology of Dr. James Montgomery Boice
    Jar writes:

    JMB's god creates all. JMBs god then picks from what he has created and individually grants salvation.

    However, JMB's god still created all. It is the old image of the drought de seigneur, the feudal idea that the noble has total rights over those under him to use, kill, rape, pillage as he wishes.

    JMB's god is but a reversion to that old idea, one that certainly was abandoned by the mid 1700s everywhere but in religion.

    It is the old idea that your life is only continued by the whim of the overlord and so forfeit at that overlord's whim.

    I still find it hard to get used to the idea of a God (or human map of God) that is rational and non-dogmatic.

    Are you thus saying that God creates humans and has no foreknowledge of our eventual destiny?

    If that is true, it seemingly limits God from being in the future as well as the past and present. (or maybe its just our lack of comprehension and perspective. Perhaps we are unable to declare the future....on behalf of ourselves or God.


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    jar
    Member
    Posts: 31771
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 2.6


    Message 149 of 675 (423645)
    09-23-2007 1:02 PM
    Reply to: Message 148 by Thugpreacha
    09-23-2007 12:54 PM


    Re: The Evil theology of Dr. James Montgomery Boice
    If that is true, it seemingly limits God from being in the future as well as the past and present. (or maybe its just our lack of comprehension and perspective. Perhaps we are unable to declare the future....on behalf of ourselves or God.

    Sheesh.

    That is irrelevant Phat.

    If what JMB preaches is true then God is evil.


    Aslan is not a Tame Lion

    This message is a reply to:
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    Thugpreacha
    Member
    Posts: 13375
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 150 of 675 (423820)
    09-24-2007 1:27 PM
    Reply to: Message 149 by jar
    09-23-2007 1:02 PM


    Re: The Evil theology of Dr. James Montgomery Boice
    I really have not listened to much of what JMB says recently. I used to listen to him a few years ago, but he died and now I see his sermons online.

    I am still learning how to discriminate what is actually said from what is meant or the implications thereof.

    If you have any suggested online sermons for me to check out, pass them along. ;)


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