But if you are the one suffering under the delusion, then your own experience, the results of your faith, and your interpretations of what St. Paul and the Apostles have said are all suspect.
Your comment ignores that I mentioned results - something Crashfrog admittedly never got from God. Your comment also presupposes the Apostles are liars or deluded (like I had previously pointed out). Since you are an Atheist could we expect you to believe or say anything else? They could not have been deluded since each of them had what scholars call a "cataclysmic change for the better." They either lied or told the truth.
In regards to delusion: we have a source (= the Bible) and explanation for unbelievers and nonbelievers; the Bible says those who have (past tense) rejected Christ are suffering a delusion from God for scorning His Son. With this said: what is your source and basis for belief that Christians are under a delusion?
Verse 9 and 10 are connected with a conjunction connecting the thoughts - you can not disassociate them because of your bias and propensity to condemn others.
Here we have a supposition that said conjunction was denied or disputed. Since this is false said supposition is a deliberate misrepresentation.
Even the phrase you want to desperately isolate has another conjunction connecting it with the prior thought. Check out the grammatical uses of conjunctions and semi-colons before you reply.
Here we have another false supposition/misrepresentation.
Said conjunctions were never denied, what is denied, by you, is the phrases that come AFTER these conjunctions, which set the context for the next two verses concerning delusion from God.
If it were a quote mine why not just prove it! The link was provided.
You fail to see that the "MiddleTown Bible Church" is not a source or a scholar, you also fail to see that your use of "this source" is an isolated pick and choose that conveniently supports your corruptive intent concerning 2Thess. 2. Your use is a quote mine OR they are quote mining (doesn't matter) BECAUSE both of you or just you are evading what comes after the semi-colon before verse 11.
You have been told this at least two times now.
What is even more amazing that you make the empty accusation of quote mining while you are busy quote mining the very bible yourself by not including the all important full context.
This is a blatant misrepresention and evasion of phrases before verse 11 (which is the exact context of verses 11 and 12). You are a Atheist-evolutionist loon whose only intent is to evade and corrupt these textual facts because they explain your godless state too.
Common sense says if you want accurate information about the Bible: read it yourself and do not consult an Atheist-evolutionist.
Anyone can turn to 2Thess. 2:11,12 and read that God sends strong delusion as a punishment on those who rejected salvation and Christ's love.
You are steadfast in your blatant and arrogant attempt at quote mining the bible for your blind obsession to condemn others.
Since you are an Atheist-evolutionist and I am a Christian invulnerable logic says your contention that I am mishandling the Bible is false. Logically, your status as an Atheist-evolutionist says you will always quote mine (= corrupt) the Bible in your favor since you are as such.
Logically, because you are an Atheist your condemnation of my use of the Bible is the best evidence that my use is correct. Your approval, because you are an Atheist, would make my handling and use false.
Ray Martinez, Protestant Evangelical Creationist-Designist
The clear context of your quoted scripture is about Satan using his supernatural powers to deceive thru the use of signs and lying wonders. Let the actual text talk for itself.
Presupposing (again) that I denied the fact above is explained by the fact that you are under the strong delusion identified in verses 11 and 12 and seek to undermine this disturbing truth by misrepresenting the context and lying that I have denied the blue box fact.
Once again, the issue is text that comes after the blue box fact and before verse 11 begins. Three times you have evaded; this is explained by your desire to distort the plain reading and its obvious explanation of why you are an Atheist.
Overall, in context, the block of verses is revealing that God allows Satan power to deceive persons who reject truth and that God Himself also operates this way towards persons who scorn His love and salvation.
You have to read scriptures holistically and in context. You are isolating text to satisfy some egotistical need to condemn or belittle others.
The word is "wholistically" and not "holistically," Iceage. Your comment betrays exactly what you are guilty of in addition to corruption since you are an Atheist and the subject is the Bible.
But you are denying. You are *overtly* denying and ignoring the conjunctions because the conjunctions connect the previous thoughts which gives the whole picture of the context.
My last two posts acknowledged the conjunctions, why are you lying to my face?
Again, the issue is what comes after the conjunctions = what you have not acknowledged over the course of three exchanges. You have been told and shown the truth and yet you fail to recognize your errors. We can only explain this by remembering the fact that you are an Atheist and the issue is Biblical interpretation and its explanation of why you are an Atheist.
First I have not denied what comes after the semi-colon just realized that the verse is connected and meaning not want you want.
This is the first time you even mentioned this text. Feel free to show me in previous posts where you have addressed the last two phrases before verse 11?
These two phrases are the exact context of verses 11 and 12 = not a matter of opinion.
The point is that these verses tells us the real reason why you do not have a spiritual IQ. God has rejected you for scorning His Son, this explains "ex-Christians" who are now Atheists.
i thought we already covered this, ray. you're not a christian. remember?
you suggested that we could determine who was really a christian and who wasn't by a person's argument. your argument contradicted the teachings of christ, because you go around condemning others. so you're not a christian.
sorry, but thanks for playing.
Since you are a person who thinks mankind evolved from an ape ancestor instead of being created by God in His image, and since Richard Dawkins believes what you believe, this proves you are not a real Christian and that I am.
Objective persons know Christians and Atheists do not agree on origins: if they do then one party is not genuinely as such. I believe Richard Dawkins is a real Atheist.