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Author Topic:   The C.C.O.I. (Christian Cult Of Ignorance) and Willful Ignorance
jar
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 124 of 675 (419181)
09-01-2007 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by Phat
09-01-2007 9:43 AM


Re: The Communal Nervous System
I assume he means the microchip as well as the transistor!
No, he meant the transistor. I'm not sure what you mean by microchip.
He was also wrong about the other animals. Since the book was originally written we have learned much. We now know that many of the other animals also "increase their wisdom, their information, or their control over their environment from one generation to the next." So that is not just a human trait.
Given that Jesus was in your opinion only human, did Jesus have to learn everything about his environment and culture by reading, testing, and deducing? (Like everyone else?)
Yes. Just like everyone else.
And I do not see where your quote even implies anything about a "source for his wisdom apart from the sources that most students have. " In fact it doesn't deal with either what he said or where he got his information, but only with his presentation, his delivery.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Phat, posted 09-01-2007 9:43 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by Phat, posted 09-03-2007 7:42 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 128 of 675 (419766)
09-04-2007 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Phat
09-04-2007 3:26 PM


Re: Jesus: Only human while on earth?
Many websites claim that Jesus was God..in a Trinitarian mindset. ...
here and here as well as shown in the answers to this Theological Test here...and my question is that why is this issue so controversial?
I don't know if it is controversial. But it is silly.
If Jesus was God during his lifetime here on earth, then there doesn't seem to be any purpose or importance to his life. A God dying and then being resurrected is no big deal, theology is littered with such critters, and in addition, it tells us nothing of any use or value.
Gods dying and being reborn tells us nothing about what happens to us, to humans. The fact that a god can do something says nothing about what human can do.
The same thing applies to all of his behavior. It is nothing for a god to resist temptation, walk on water, do miracles. Really no big deal.
The Jesus who is God and Man while here on earth is really little more than a carny sideshow freak.
I mean, why couldn't Jesus have been all God and still fully human otherwise?
Yeah right.
Sorry but that is just more of the palm the pea nonsense. There are attributes of a god that exclude being human and attributes of a human that exclude being god.
Folk are free to believe such things, I just don't see how such beliefs can stand up to examination by reason, logic and reality.
AbE:
Let me expand on this a little.
If someone can explain how someone can be wholly God and man at the same time, I am willing to consider it.
BUT...
being wholly man is a completely different lesson.
First it is a real sacrifice instead of the little parody of "pay for our sins" normally presented. Being wholly man means that Jesus did not know for sure he would be raised, that there was life after death, whether what he said would be accepted. Being wholly man means that Jesus shat on himself, spit up, went through the pain of teething, had to learn to talk, learn to walk.
Humans cannot kill a god, if so, then human are more powerful than the god. If the god can then be reborn, it is not really death but rather some kids game, "Bang bang, you're daid! What should we play now?"
If Jesus is a God walking amongst us, what does that teach us?
Edited by jar, : expand

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Phat, posted 09-04-2007 3:26 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Phat, posted 09-06-2007 5:06 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 130 of 675 (420194)
09-06-2007 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by Phat
09-06-2007 5:06 PM


Re: Jesus: Only human while on earth?
That God cared enough about us worms to intervene.
Huh? What does that even mean?
I agree, but would maintain that humans become the decisions they make and are thus responsible for their path in life...irregardless whether or not God "foreknows" it...
If God foreknows that someone will make the decisions that lead to being damned, and still creates that person, then that God is evil.
Unless God knows that the discipline of worship is good for us.
I'm sorry but unless you can support that it means little. A God that wants to be worshiped is still a sick little critter.
I don't imagine that God is insecure...it is that we are too secure without Him. Thats the whole problem!
What exactly is the "Whole problem?"

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Phat, posted 09-06-2007 5:06 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by Phat, posted 09-07-2007 2:20 PM jar has replied
 Message 132 by Phat, posted 09-07-2007 2:25 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 133 of 675 (420349)
09-07-2007 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by Phat
09-07-2007 2:20 PM


Re: What About Prayer?
Prayer?
Like mediation it is a form of concentration and self evaluation. If done properly it forces you to question in depth what it is you are asking and to search for potential solutions.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Phat, posted 09-07-2007 2:20 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by Phat, posted 09-07-2007 2:54 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 134 of 675 (420350)
09-07-2007 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Phat
09-07-2007 2:25 PM


On communication
Lack of communion (communication) with God.?
Huh? Sorry but communication is a two way street. How do you know who is on the other end?
Edited by jar, : No reason given.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Phat, posted 09-07-2007 2:25 PM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 136 of 675 (420363)
09-07-2007 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Phat
09-07-2007 2:54 PM


Re: What About Prayer?
Okay. So would you say that it is irrelevant whether God is listening and that our focus should be on what we are asking and why?
Yes and what that tells us about what to do next.
Perhaps the question should be:
# Is God Listening? Does It Matter?
Good question. Does it matter? If so, why?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Phat, posted 09-07-2007 2:54 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Phat, posted 09-07-2007 3:21 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 138 of 675 (420377)
09-07-2007 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by Phat
09-07-2007 3:21 PM


Re: What About Prayer?
But do any of those require anyone, particularly some god to be on the other end?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Phat, posted 09-07-2007 3:21 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Phat, posted 09-07-2007 4:40 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 141 of 675 (422951)
09-18-2007 9:52 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by Phat
09-18-2007 9:37 PM


Re: Foreknowledge remix
Does God create all?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by Phat, posted 09-18-2007 9:37 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by Phat, posted 09-19-2007 10:00 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 143 of 675 (423041)
09-19-2007 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by Phat
09-19-2007 10:00 AM


Re: Foreknowledge remix
All that is irrelevant Phat.
Does God create the critter?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Phat, posted 09-19-2007 10:00 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by Phat, posted 09-20-2007 8:41 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 145 of 675 (423221)
09-20-2007 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by Phat
09-20-2007 8:41 AM


Re: Foreknowledge remix
As a qualifier and again...(this is not irrelevant ) God does not create our thoughts. We do. IMB
But that IS irrelvant.
If God foreknows our actions then it does not matter is we think we create them.
AbE:
let me try again to step you through this.
If your god is the Creator
and your god foreknows everything you will do
and your god goes ahead and creates you knowing that you will be damned
then your god is EVIL.
It doesn't matter who makes the choices, if your god foreknows what those choices will be and knows they will lead to you being damned, and still creates you, then your god is EVIL.
Edited by jar, : try to expand the explanation
Edited by jar, : appalin spallin

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Phat, posted 09-20-2007 8:41 AM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 146 of 675 (423486)
09-22-2007 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Phat
09-20-2007 8:41 AM


The Evil theology of Dr. James Montgomery Boice
Recently in Chat you placed one of the televangelists, Dr. James Montgomery Boice, on the table for discussion. A hallmark and cornerstone of his preaching is
God alone is sovereign over all of His creation, and that includes individual acts of salvation.
That single sentence IMHO shows the absolute evil nature of both the Evangelical God as created by Dr. James Montgomery Boice and others, and the total bankruptcy and despicable nature of such preachers.
In that oe sentence JMB proclaims that the god of JMB is the one creator, that the god of JMB creates everything and that the god of JMB then picks and chooses and is solely responsible for individual acts of salvation.
If what he says is true, then that god can only be judged evil.
To reapeat what JMB says:
God alone is sovereign over all of His creation, and that includes individual acts of salvation.
JMB's god creates all. JMBs god then picks from what he has created and individually grants salvation.
However, JMB's god still created all. It is the old image of the drought de seigneur, the feudal idea that the noble has total rights over those under him to use, kill, rape, pillage as he wishes.
JMB's god is but a reversion to that old idea, one that certainly was abandoned by the mid 1700s everywhere but in religion.
It is the old idea that your life is only continued by the whim of the overlord and so forfeit at that overlord's whim.
Edited by jar, : fix subtitle

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Phat, posted 09-20-2007 8:41 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by Quetzal, posted 09-22-2007 7:28 PM jar has not replied
 Message 148 by Phat, posted 09-23-2007 12:54 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 149 of 675 (423645)
09-23-2007 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by Phat
09-23-2007 12:54 PM


Re: The Evil theology of Dr. James Montgomery Boice
If that is true, it seemingly limits God from being in the future as well as the past and present. (or maybe its just our lack of comprehension and perspective. Perhaps we are unable to declare the future....on behalf of ourselves or God.
Sheesh.
That is irrelevant Phat.
If what JMB preaches is true then God is evil.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Phat, posted 09-23-2007 12:54 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by Phat, posted 09-24-2007 1:27 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 151 of 675 (423826)
09-24-2007 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by Phat
09-24-2007 1:27 PM


Re: The Evil theology of Dr. James Montgomery Boice
If you have any suggested online sermons for me to check out, pass them along.
No, I have no such suggestions. IMHO listening to sermons is pretty much a waste of time and pointless.
Read instead.
Read Twain, read Hemingway, read the writings of Archy, read.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Phat, posted 09-24-2007 1:27 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by Phat, posted 09-25-2007 5:08 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 153 of 675 (424009)
09-25-2007 5:34 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by Phat
09-25-2007 5:08 AM


Re: Reading?
I know that Ravi is controversial, but don't tell me that he is yet another on your list or irrelevant theobabblists.
Sorry but yes. He is just another theobabble huckster.
Shop Ravi
What good is it gonna do to read a bunch of human philosophical opinions?
I don't know. Did I recommend that?
Read, I said. Question. Doubt.
Multi-media is designed to sway the emotions. It is the preferred medium of the huckster, the infomercial.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Phat, posted 09-25-2007 5:08 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by Phat, posted 09-27-2007 12:27 AM jar has not replied
 Message 156 by Phat, posted 09-27-2007 5:57 AM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 157 of 675 (424500)
09-27-2007 9:42 AM


Lost me again
Is there anything in either of those posts to discuss or debate?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by Phat, posted 11-20-2007 10:03 AM jar has replied

  
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