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Author Topic:   People - I /was/ a Christian
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1805
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 301 of 307 (425573)
10-02-2007 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 300 by CTD
10-02-2007 6:54 PM


Re: A few questions
There's no free will in that.

Where's the free will in god removing an person's ability to beleive in him?


Live every week like it's Shark Week!
Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor
This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by CTD, posted 10-02-2007 6:54 PM CTD has not yet responded

iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3991 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 302 of 307 (425580)
10-02-2007 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 300 by CTD
10-02-2007 6:54 PM


Re: A few questions
CTD writes:

You're not interested in truth.

That's disingenuous...

CTD writes:

The Bible doesn't say God is going to just up & "make some believe" He or His salvation aren't real.

Sure does...

Romans 9:21 writes:

Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

You then further twist....

ctd writes:

You maintain that He should practice psychological manipulation to such an extent that He gets a positive result in every single case. There's no free will in that. It's just an inefficient method of manufacturing zombies.

Disingenuous again. That is not what LinearAg said. He said

la writes:

1. How is convincing someone of the value in serving God considered twisting their arm or making them robots?

2. What aspect of God providing strong unambiguous evidence of His reality to the world negates our free will?

Providing strong unambiguous evidence is not "psychological manipulation".

The whole free-will argument for the justification of hell etc is rubbish. That is, the argument that God had to give us free-will so that our love genuine. One can still have free-will and still be designed to have a strong propensity to obey and understand God. My dog is genetically wired to obey his master and to be a loyal companion. Does that fact somehow negate or minimize the value of his love and loyalty? No.

LinearAG writes:

First, you have not shown that I have turned away from the love of truth. Interestingly, many seekers of truth don't come to the same conclusion about God that you do, despite their sincerity in the quest. I am one of those.

CTD writes:

Talk is cheap. You need to start behaving like a sincere seeker of truth.

You replies are cheap and arrogant.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by CTD, posted 10-02-2007 6:54 PM CTD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 303 by CTD, posted 10-02-2007 8:24 PM iceage has responded

CTD
Member (Idle past 3945 days)
Posts: 253
Joined: 03-11-2007


Message 303 of 307 (425585)
10-02-2007 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 302 by iceage
10-02-2007 8:11 PM


Re: A few questions
iceage
Disingenuous again. That is not what LinearAg said.

I cut & pasted what he said right out of post 294.

Thanks for clarifying your intentions, BTW.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by iceage, posted 10-02-2007 8:11 PM iceage has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 304 by iceage, posted 10-02-2007 8:59 PM CTD has responded

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3991 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 304 of 307 (425589)
10-02-2007 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 303 by CTD
10-02-2007 8:24 PM


Re: A few questions
Oh... show me where he said "psychological manipulation".

He further clarified

LinearAg writes:

1. How is convincing someone of the value in serving God considered twisting their arm or making them robots?

2. What aspect of God providing strong unambiguous evidence of His reality to the world negates our free will?

But you twisted by claiming "psychological manipulation". Cheap...

You are being a wee bit condescending (if not arrogant) by assuming LinearAg's "love of the truth" is cheap compared to your own and he needs to start being sincere.

LinearAg writes:

First, you have not shown that I have turned away from the love of truth. Interestingly, many seekers of truth don't come to the same conclusion about God that you do, despite their sincerity in the quest. I am one of those.

CTD writes:

Talk is cheap. You need to start behaving like a sincere seeker of truth.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 303 by CTD, posted 10-02-2007 8:24 PM CTD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 305 by CTD, posted 10-03-2007 1:41 AM iceage has responded

CTD
Member (Idle past 3945 days)
Posts: 253
Joined: 03-11-2007


Message 305 of 307 (425597)
10-03-2007 1:41 AM
Reply to: Message 304 by iceage
10-02-2007 8:59 PM


Re: A few questions
iceage
You are being a wee bit condescending (if not arrogant) by assuming LinearAg's "love of the truth" is cheap compared to your own and he needs to start being sincere.

You saw what happened. He poses a question. In order for the question to have any meaning, God must exist in that context. Then he lets on that he thinks those who believe God are chumps.

In any context where God is real, the chumps aren't the ones who believe Him. But he's gotta take cheap shots.

He can't even manage to talk the talk.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by iceage, posted 10-02-2007 8:59 PM iceage has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 306 by iceage, posted 10-03-2007 2:13 AM CTD has not yet responded

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3991 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 306 of 307 (425598)
10-03-2007 2:13 AM
Reply to: Message 305 by CTD
10-03-2007 1:41 AM


Re: A few questions
CTD writes:

You saw what happened.

Sure did. You are out of line.

First you created a straw man by twisted his meaning (ie translated strong unambiguous evidence -> psychological manipulation) which he even went through the trouble to clarify.

Second he is just questioning your theology and did not take cheap shoots or call you a chump - you did if you reread your own posts.

CTD writes:

In any context where God is real, the chumps aren't the ones who believe Him

Yes and if context is the God of Islam or Judaism you are gonna pay dearly for your idolatry.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 305 by CTD, posted 10-03-2007 1:41 AM CTD has not yet responded

Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3879
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 307 of 307 (425599)
10-03-2007 2:19 AM


Another topic crashes (no pun intended) to a dubius ending
300+ messages - Closing time.

Adminnemooseus


New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.

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Admin writes:

It really helps moderators figure out if a topic is disintegrating because of general misbehavior versus someone in particular if the originally non-misbehaving members kept it that way. When everyone is prickly and argumentative and off-topic and personal then it's just too difficult to tell. We have neither infinite time to untie the Gordian knot, nor the wisdom of Solomon.

There used to be a comedian who presented his ideas for a better world, and one of them was to arm everyone on the highway with little rubber dart guns. Every time you see a driver doing something stupid, you fire a little dart at his car. When a state trooper sees someone driving down the highway with a bunch of darts all over his car he pulls him over for being an idiot.

Please make it easy to tell you apart from the idiots. Source


  
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