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Author Topic:   The Bible was NOT man made, it was Godly made
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 226 of 320 (425817)
10-04-2007 4:20 AM
Reply to: Message 220 by gen
10-04-2007 3:32 AM


Re: Let us gently explain
I do understand what the scientific method is. Do you believe the world is round?
The shape of the Earth is irrelevant to this discussion - unless you want to bring up the silly quote from the Bible about the "circle of the Earth." The Bible also says the Earth rests on pillars.
And I'm sure you understand what the scientific method is, by rote memorization. But so far you've demonstrated a saddening lack of comprehension regarding the basic principles it uses - evidence and observation. You believe a book can prove itself to be true without a doubt simply by stating within itself that it's contents are true. This is the position of a very gullible person who cannot distinguish fantasy from reality - such a person will believe any silliness that claims to be true.

Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by gen, posted 10-04-2007 3:32 AM gen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by gen, posted 10-14-2007 2:27 AM Rahvin has not replied

Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 227 of 320 (425818)
10-04-2007 4:23 AM
Reply to: Message 218 by gen
10-04-2007 3:28 AM


Re: Why do you not believe this?
the Bible was written by heaps of people who didnt know each other, and yet their statements agree.
How is this in any way surprising if the books of the bible were specifically selected to agree? Saying the authors did not know each other is highly misleading - since they WERE aware of the writings of previous Biblical authors, they would of course share the same foundation. Surely you don't claim that the author of Luke hadn't read Genesis, or Exodus?

Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by gen, posted 10-04-2007 3:28 AM gen has not replied

Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 228 of 320 (425819)
10-04-2007 4:25 AM
Reply to: Message 219 by gen
10-04-2007 3:29 AM


your motivation is why you are in the discussion and therefore it is relevant
This is called an "appeal to motive" fallacy. If a Nazi says the sky is blue while attempting to convert you to his cause, is he not correct in that statement alone? A person's motivation has nothing to do with the validity of the argument, and so is irrelevant.

Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by gen, posted 10-04-2007 3:29 AM gen has not replied

sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 229 of 320 (425830)
10-04-2007 7:18 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by gen
10-04-2007 12:29 AM


Re: Let us gently explain
gen
Anyone familiar with Matthew 24?
Care to start a thread on prophecy and we can show the fallacious reasoning behind that statement?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by gen, posted 10-04-2007 12:29 AM gen has not replied

PaulK
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Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 230 of 320 (425837)
10-04-2007 7:52 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by gen
10-04-2007 12:29 AM


Re: Let us gently explain
quote:
they said that what was written thousands of years ago was true. Another thing-thousands of prophecies in the Bible are coming true TODAY. Anyone familiar with Matthew 24?
Yes. I've discussed it before on this forum. It's about events leading up to the destruction of the Herodian Temple (which was destroyed in 70 AD). Not exactly "coming true TODAY", is it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by gen, posted 10-04-2007 12:29 AM gen has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by gen, posted 10-14-2007 2:36 AM PaulK has replied

DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2284
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 231 of 320 (425919)
10-04-2007 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by gen
10-04-2007 3:29 AM


your motivation is why you are in the discussion and therefore it is relevant
Nope. The discussion is about the authorship of the bible, not any religious beleifs I may or may not hold.
I've given you a quote from the Holy Qur'an stating that only God could have written it, so from your logic it is obvious that the Holy Qur'an was written by God.

Live every week like it's Shark Week!
Just a monkey in a long line of kings.
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist!
*not an actual doctor

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 Message 219 by gen, posted 10-04-2007 3:29 AM gen has not replied

Tryannasapien Rex
Junior Member (Idle past 4598 days)
Posts: 21
Joined: 02-15-2006


Message 232 of 320 (425991)
10-04-2007 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by gen
10-03-2007 11:11 PM


re: gen
You are trying to use god the father against the god the son
quote:
The Bible also says, in other places, that God will do whatever you ask that is IN HIS WILL
god the father and god the son are one in the same,the word was with god and the WORD WAS GOD.
When Jesus says in John ch14, ver12-14: Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; if you ask anything in my name, I will do it. Because he says and These statements cant be limited by god the father,s will because these statements are god's will. If you try to limit them in any way with some other bible verse then you are just using the bible to contradict the bible and you would be also making jesus a liar
quote:
God is not a magician that does what you want.
When Jesus says in John ch14, ver12-14:{Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do} he is talking about the miracles he did,
1 walk on water
2 turn water into wine
3 command a tree to wither and die
1,2 and 3 are magic tricks and its OK to do them because he says YOU can do them.
quote:
He is eternal, all powerful and all knowing
when you are "eternal, all powerful and all knowing" you can also do magic
quote:
He is NOT a magic charm to be pulled out of a box when we want a bit of luxury
it's not a bit of luxury to ask for "fully functional flesh and blood leg" to help an amputee!!! especially when an all powerful being can do it and says he will do it when you ask.
quote:
He can see what is best
What would BEST for an amputee oh lets see i think a fully functional flesh and blood leg.
Your god is all powerful he can do it, all YOU have to do is ask in his name.
Why don't you do it ask him to help some amputee and ask for a fully functional flesh and blood leg and see if you get it.
When you don't get your leg "because this prayer will never be answered" is it because jesus lies or maybe its that you don't believe in jesus when he says? {Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do} If jesus is lying then why do you believe in a liar? If jesus is not lying then why are you defending someone you don't believe in!?!?!?
quote:
Jesus says that a father would give his child food if they need it, just like God will give us whatever we need
And those children in Africa do not get what they need because they starving to !!death!! so your book lies again!! All you have to do is ask in jesus name to end world hunger and he will do. Unless its god the father's will that they needless suffer die for some insane reason.
quote:
He can see what is best. Jesus says that a father would give his child food if they need it, just like God will give us whatever we need
Isaiah 13:13-16
Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken out of its place,
at the wrath of the Lord of hosts on the day of his fierce anger.
Like a hunted gazelle, or like sheep with no one to gather them,
all will turn to their own people, and all will flee to their own lands.
Whoever is found will be thrust through, and whoever is caught will fall by the sword.
Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes;their houses will be plundered,
and their wives ravished.
Or this:Hosea 13
Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword, their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open. -
Or this:Numbers 31
Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls <<<{little girls as sex slaves sick sick sick}who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
god knows best when he has the Israelites murder innocent baby's, that's what a real loving father would do !!! this would be funny if it wasn't so sick!!!!
quote:
'Every word of God is flawless, he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.' -Proverbs 30:5
Exodus, Chapter 32:
Then he [Moses] said to them, "This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.' " The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died.
So... one minute we have God carving into stone, "Thou shalt not kill." Then the next minute we have God telling each man to strap a sword to his side and lay waste to thousands. Wouldn't you expect the almighty ruler of the universe to be slightly more consistent than this? 3,000 dead people is a lot of commandment breaking. Obviously that is a total contradiction. you realy think the word god is flawless?
quote:
That should settle this debate. The Bible itself states that it is the word of God
Nope sorry not by a long shot
The bible is a book written by superstitous sheep hearders who claim to speak for some imaginary god.
But i'll tell what will settle this debate.
All you have to do is do the works that jesus did and says you can do,just turning some water into wine will suffice.
So no excuse just put your faith were your mouth is and do it

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by gen, posted 10-03-2007 11:11 PM gen has not replied

Kapyong
Member (Idle past 3442 days)
Posts: 344
Joined: 05-22-2003


Message 233 of 320 (425997)
10-04-2007 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by Rahvin
10-04-2007 12:39 AM


Hi all,
Rahvin :
quote:
What if they completely contradict the Bible? What of the canons that include additional texts that the Council of Nicea determined were not inspired? What of the few churches who predate the Council and have a different canon? What of the Protestant canon that leaves out several books accepted by the Council of Nicea?
Just a reminder -
The Council of Nicea had nothing to do with choosing the canon.
Iasion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Rahvin, posted 10-04-2007 12:39 AM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by Rahvin, posted 10-04-2007 9:09 PM Kapyong has not replied

Kapyong
Member (Idle past 3442 days)
Posts: 344
Joined: 05-22-2003


Message 234 of 320 (425998)
10-04-2007 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by gen
10-04-2007 12:23 AM


quote:
The authors did know about some of the earlier books, but what difference does that make?
A HUGE difference.
They wrote books based on stories in the earlier books.
Just like Star Wars fans write Luke Skywalker books to this day.
quote:
The four Gospels were written by four different men, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Some of them knew Jesus, and presented an eyewitness account, while others wrote stories they had heard from others.
The Gospel authors are unknown.
None of them met Jesus.
Not one book of the NT was written by anyone who ever met any historical Jesus - that is the view of modern NT scholars.
Iasion

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 Message 207 by gen, posted 10-04-2007 12:23 AM gen has not replied

Kapyong
Member (Idle past 3442 days)
Posts: 344
Joined: 05-22-2003


Message 235 of 320 (425999)
10-04-2007 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by gen
10-03-2007 11:05 PM


'All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness.' -2 Timothy 3:16
Actually,
the Greek is ambiguous - the passage is translated differently in many bibles :
'All inspired Scripture is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness.' -2 Timothy 3:16
Completely different meaning.
Anyway,
Timothy was FORGED by someone else in Paul's name.
Do you think a FORGERY is good evidence, gen ?
Iasion

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 Message 178 by gen, posted 10-03-2007 11:05 PM gen has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by simple, posted 10-06-2007 4:24 AM Kapyong has replied

Kapyong
Member (Idle past 3442 days)
Posts: 344
Joined: 05-22-2003


Message 236 of 320 (426001)
10-04-2007 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 203 by gen
10-03-2007 11:54 PM


Re: Let us gently explain
Hi all,
quote:
"4000-1000BC(approximately) - Scripture was written, inspired by God"
Rubbish.
4000 BC ?
Bollocks.
Mankind wasn't even WRITING then.
1000BC ?
Bollocks.
Literacy was not common in this period in the Bible lands.
The OT was written probably 8th - 6th C. BCE
The various "Bibles" (you know there are several different canons, right?) were changed often over the years - books added, books removed.
It's all man-made - nothing from God.
Iasion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by gen, posted 10-03-2007 11:54 PM gen has not replied

Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 237 of 320 (426037)
10-04-2007 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by Kapyong
10-04-2007 5:53 PM


Just a reminder -
The Council of Nicea had nothing to do with choosing the canon.
Apologies - the Council of Trent then, was it? I get them mixed up occasionally. The point I made remains, of course.

Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by Kapyong, posted 10-04-2007 5:53 PM Kapyong has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 238 by jar, posted 10-04-2007 9:15 PM Rahvin has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 238 of 320 (426039)
10-04-2007 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by Rahvin
10-04-2007 9:09 PM


Not Trent either.
The Councils of Trent went on from December 13, 1545 to December 4, 1563.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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simple 
Inactive Member


Message 239 of 320 (426328)
10-06-2007 4:24 AM
Reply to: Message 235 by Kapyong
10-04-2007 5:59 PM


quote:
Anyway,
Timothy was FORGED by someone else in Paul's name.
Really, now?? How is it you know that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Kapyong, posted 10-04-2007 5:59 PM Kapyong has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by Kapyong, posted 10-06-2007 7:38 AM simple has not replied

Kapyong
Member (Idle past 3442 days)
Posts: 344
Joined: 05-22-2003


Message 240 of 320 (426350)
10-06-2007 7:38 AM
Reply to: Message 239 by simple
10-06-2007 4:24 AM


Hiya,
The reasons why the Pastorals are considered pseudo-graphs (the polite word scholars use for forgeries) are summarised here :
Norman Perrin summarises four reasons that have lead critical scholarship to regard the pastorals as inauthentic (The New Testament: An Introduction, pp. 264-5):
Vocabulary. While statistics are not always as meaningful as they may seem, of 848 words (excluding proper names) found in the Pastorals, 306 are not in the remainder of the Pauline corpus, even including the deutero-Pauline 2 Thessalonians, Colossians, and Ephesians. Of these 306 words, 175 do not occur elsewhere in the New Testament, while 211 are part of the general vocabulary of Christian writers of the second century. Indeed, the vocabulary of the Pastorals is closer to that of popular Hellenistic philosophy than it is to the vocabulary of Paul or the deutero-Pauline letters. Furthermore, the Pastorals use Pauline words ina non-Pauline sense: dikaios in Paul means "righteous" and here means "upright"; pistis, "faith," has become "the body of Christian faith"; and so on.
Literary style. Paul writes a characteristically dynamic Greek, with dramatic arguments, emotional outbursts, and the introduction of real or imaginary opponents and partners in dialogue. The Pastorals are in a quiet meditative style, far more characteristic of Hebrews or 1 Peter, or even of literary Hellenistic Greek in general, than of the Corinthian correspondence or of Romans, to say nothing of Galatians.
The situation of the apostle implied in the letters. Paul's situation as envisaged in the Pastorals can in no way be fitted into any reconstruction of Paul's life and work as we know it from the other letters or can deduce it from the Acts of the Apostles. If Paul wrote these letters, then he must have been released from his first Roman imprisonment and have traveled in the West. But such meager tradition as we have seems to be more a deduction of what must have happened from his plans as detailed in Romans than a reflection of known historical reality.
The letters as reflecting the characteristics of emergent Catholocism. The arguments presented above are forceful, but a last consideration is overwhelming, namely that, together with 2 Peter, the Pastorals are of all the texts in the New Testament the most distinctive representatives of the emphases of emergent Catholocism. The apostle Paul could no more have written the Pastorals than the apostle Peter could have written 2 Peter.
From:
1 Timothy
Any modern NT commentary should agree - the Pastorals have long been considered spurious.
Iasion

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Replies to this message:
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