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Author Topic:   Bipedalism in apes: a plesiomorphic trait?
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1370 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 8 of 14 (425712)
10-03-2007 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Doddy
10-01-2007 5:19 AM


i'll look it over, but i see one startling flaw:
chimpanzees are capable of walking upright. that's oliver the chimp, who had such a tendency to do so that people called him a "humanzee." (genetic tests confirmed that he was entirely chimp, btw).
what's even more truly bizarre is that i'm pretty sure that chimps are better at bipedal locomotion that we are. after all, they don't have pass giant-headed freak babies through their hips. we do.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Doddy, posted 10-01-2007 5:19 AM Doddy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Doddy, posted 10-04-2007 2:18 AM arachnophilia has not replied
 Message 10 by Jon, posted 10-04-2007 2:37 AM arachnophilia has replied
 Message 11 by RAZD, posted 10-04-2007 6:09 PM arachnophilia has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1370 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 12 of 14 (426077)
10-05-2007 1:17 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Jon
10-04-2007 2:37 AM


Unfortunately, though, chimps are not bipedal, and they are actually worse at it than we are.
i had heard they expend less energy walking fully erect than we do, not having to swing wide hips back and forth. maybe i've got that backwards, though. the point about the toe does make sense, too.
There is a slew of other characteristics that make chimpanzees unsuited to habitual bipedalism, from skull structure to pelvic shape; and save for those strange little primates like Oliver, bipedalism's never been the preferred way to go.
as an interesting aside, oliver is no longer bipedal in his old age.


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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1370 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 13 of 14 (426078)
10-05-2007 1:21 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by RAZD
10-04-2007 6:09 PM


This really shows how unremarkable the human ability to walk upright really is - when looked at in comparison to other primates it is really a difference of degree.
well, yes. we're more evolved with bipedalism in mind, whereas they are not. it's actually somewhat easy to see the process by which greater adaptations for erect bipedalism would evolve for states very similar to modern apes.
The only real difference that I can see is that since adapting an upright posture, subsequent human evolution has made it awkward and counter-productive to use a quadrupedal lifestyle (the turkish "hand walkers" notwithstanding). The difference is more that we are no longer able to not use bipedal locomotion.
i was thinking of bringing them up. iirc, they are actually slightly anatomically different in terms of ligaments and joints -- but mostly as a result (not the cause) of their quadrapedalism. it's sort of odd to think of bipedalism as at least partly developmental.


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