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Author Topic:   What Is A Christian (Remix)
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 86 of 133 (426169)
10-05-2007 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by macaroniandcheese
10-05-2007 12:48 PM


then one would assume that it would be a terrible idea to presume to state who is and isn't a christian, no?
I think the idea becomes acceptable when someone says: "I am a Christian, but yadda-yadda-yadda."
Where yadda-yadda-yadda is something that makes someone not a Christian.
For example, I am a Christian but I don't think we should love our enemies. Or, whatever, the specific doesn't matter for my point.
The point is that there is some criteria that must be fit to rightfully be considered a Christian by others. Its possible for someone to claim Christianity but have beliefs or behaviors that make them non-Christian, IMHO.
For others to call them out on it and say that they are, in fact, not a Christian is not necessarily a terrible thing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-05-2007 12:48 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-05-2007 2:29 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 88 of 133 (426172)
10-05-2007 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by ringo
10-05-2007 12:58 PM


Like I said, Jesus' consideration is the only one that counts.
Well sure, but we're talking about who we consider to be Christians, regardless of if it actually counts.
Gandhi was more a member of the real Christian community than Hovind or Falwell or Robertson.
I think we're just talking about different things when we type "C(c)hristian".
But the question is "Who IS a Christian?", not "Who's labelled as a Christian?"
I think that in the context of the OP, those are the same question. Maybe I've misunderstood the OP, but from this quote:
quote:
Jar is not a Christian. Never has been (but hopefully will be). From Rays perspective (and mine) Jar is a 5th Columnist - and could expect to be (as per type) particularly reviled by those who recognize him for what he is.
it seems to be more concerned with whether on not the label is applicable (because of the persons beliefs or actions), not whether or not the person will actually be with Christ.
Well, actually, now that I think about it and reread it, it could be talking about the exact opposite of what I think its trying to say.
So now I'm confused.
My point is that it's more correct to call a christian "Christian" than to call a non-christian "Christian".
Yeah but I still don't think we should be calling Gandhi a Christian. He was a Hindu. Even if he was more of a christian than many Christians, we shouldn't call him a Christian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by ringo, posted 10-05-2007 12:58 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by ringo, posted 10-05-2007 2:49 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 90 of 133 (426179)
10-05-2007 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by macaroniandcheese
10-05-2007 2:29 PM


i think it does matter. does not loving our enemies, or thinking gays should be allowed to marry make you less of a christian? how about thinking jesus probably was married, or that having sex before marriagedoesn't make me a bad person? how about thinking i should bomb abortion clinics, or that i should kill fags? how about thinking that satan has power of his own, or thinking that such an idea amounts to polytheism?
You'll find Christians that accept or reject any combination of those. But they could still be considered Christians.
Still though, there's some minimum requirements for who we should consider Christians.
Certainly, being a follower of Christ is one of them. Maybe the only one?
it seems to me that we're not wise enough to make these distinctions, since we tend to make the wrong ones. i think we should leave the saving up to god.
I'm not talking about the saving. I'm just talking about the label.
For others to call them out on it and say that they are, in fact, not a Christian is not necessarily a terrible thing.
i think it's the worst thing we can do. we're supposed to love our neighbors, our enemies, and everyone in between. loving people doesn't include making presumptions about their status with god. it's really not anyone's business.
Again, I'm not judging their status with God. I'm trying to find the criteria for who we, as Christians, should consider others as Christians or not.
I don't think the criteria can be just being like Christ, because that would include non-Christians like Gandhi who is a Hindu and not a Christian but happens to be like Christ.
I don't think the criteria can be just being a member of a Christian community, because a non-Christian (like a double-agent or something) could easily become a member while not be a Christian.
You see what I'm getting at?
What do you think the criteria should be?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-05-2007 2:29 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by macaroniandcheese, posted 10-05-2007 3:16 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 91 of 133 (426180)
10-05-2007 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by ringo
10-05-2007 2:49 PM


It seems just the opposite to me.
We were talking about different things. I knew it!
The topic is what makes a Christian a Chriatian, not who "we" consider to be a Christian.
At first read, I thought the OP was talking about the opposite of that.
I still think that might be what Phat intended. But I could be wrong.
Take a look at Message 44:
quote:
...if you said that you were a Christian but you don't believe and follow Jesus. Then I would say Nuh-uh. Or if you said that you don't think that Jesus was God's son. Or if you thought that Jesus never existed.
I agree with you. Anyone may be able to make it into heaven by doing the good philosophies of the tales told round the campfire, but to be a Christian, you need to relate to Christ IMHO.
It seems Phat is not talking about who is a christian, in the sense of who is saved, but who is a Christian in the sense of who should be called a Christian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by ringo, posted 10-05-2007 2:49 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by ringo, posted 10-05-2007 3:21 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied
 Message 94 by jar, posted 10-05-2007 3:35 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
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