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Author Topic:   What Is A Christian (Remix)
ringo
Member
Posts: 18129
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 77 of 133 (426133)
10-05-2007 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by New Cat's Eye
10-05-2007 10:57 AM


Christian Scientist writes:

I think that in order to be considered a Christian, you have to be a Christian in your own mind.

Jesus disagreed with you. He said that many who think they were in on the ground floor by saying, "Lord! Lord!", will not be accepted - and many that don't expect to be accepted will be.

For example, Ghandi was Christ-like. Acording to your standard, he would have been a Christian but in reality he was a Hindu and not a Christian.

You said yourself that it's possible to be a Hindu and a Christian.

By their fruits ye shall know them. I have no trouble at all recognizing Gandhi as christian.


“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-05-2007 10:57 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by jar, posted 10-05-2007 12:12 PM ringo has responded
 Message 83 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-05-2007 12:47 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18129
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 79 of 133 (426144)
10-05-2007 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by jar
10-05-2007 12:12 PM


Re: Saved, not Christian
jar writes:

But salvation is a different issue that club membership.

Which is why I tried to make the distinction a while back between Christian and christian.

If the only question is, "Who's a member of the club?", then those of you who have membership cards can hold them up and the topic is over.


“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by jar, posted 10-05-2007 12:12 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by jar, posted 10-05-2007 12:32 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18129
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 82 of 133 (426152)
10-05-2007 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by jar
10-05-2007 12:32 PM


Re: Saved, not Christian
jar writes:

A very large number of Christians just don't seem to understand what Jesus message was, and so even though they are Christians, club members, don't seem to follow his teachings, while lots of folk who are not in the club, do follow Jesus teachings.

God is the International President of the club and Jesus is the Chairman of the membership committee. He is the ultimate arbiter of who is a member and who is not.

Some will come to the convention with counterfeit membership cards and they will be barred, even though their chapters told them they were members in good standing.

Even more surprizing is when the membership committee goes out and brings in people off the street who didn't even know they were members.


“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by jar, posted 10-05-2007 12:32 PM jar has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18129
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 85 of 133 (426156)
10-05-2007 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by New Cat's Eye
10-05-2007 12:47 PM


Catholic Scientist writes:

Like jar said, Jesus was talking about who would be saved, not who should be considered a Christian.

Like I said, Jesus' consideration is the only one that counts.

If you define christian (little "c") as simply "like-Christ", then yeah, Gandhi was christian.

But Christian (big "C"), as in a member of the Christian community, then no, Gandhi wasn't a Christian.

On the contrary, Gandhi was more a member of the real Christian community than Hovind or Falwell or Robertson.

My point about the Chrstian (big "C) label was that simply being a member of the community is not enought to be a True Christian. You should actually believe the stuff too.

But the question is "Who IS a Christian?", not "Who's labelled as a Christian?"

My point is that it's more correct to call a christian "Christian" than to call a non-christian "Christian".


“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-05-2007 12:47 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-05-2007 2:30 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18129
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 89 of 133 (426176)
10-05-2007 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by New Cat's Eye
10-05-2007 2:30 PM


Catholic Scientist writes:

... we're talking about who we consider to be Christians, regardless of if it actually counts.

No we're not. I'll remind you again of the OP:

quote:
In this topic, I wish to discuss the attributes of what makes a Christian a Christian. Message 1

The topic is what makes a Christian a Chriatian, not who "we" consider to be a Christian.

... it seems to be more concerned with whether on not the label is applicable (because of the persons beliefs or actions), not whether or not the person will actually be with Christ.

It seems just the opposite to me. :) The example clearly shows that Ray and iano have the wrong way to tell what a Christian is.

By their fruit ye shall know them.


“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-05-2007 2:30 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-05-2007 3:08 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18129
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 93 of 133 (426184)
10-05-2007 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by New Cat's Eye
10-05-2007 3:08 PM


Catholic Scientist writes:

It seems Phat is not talking about who is a christian, in the sense of who is saved, but who is a Christian in the sense of who should be called a Christian.

Phat said, "... to be a Christian, you need to relate to Christ IMHO."

What I've been saying is that "relating to Christ" means doing like Christ, not saying, "I relate to Christ."

(Phat might not have meant that, exactly - but he will by the time I get through with him. :p )


“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-05-2007 3:08 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Phat, posted 10-05-2007 4:47 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18129
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 99 of 133 (426210)
10-05-2007 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Phat
10-05-2007 4:47 PM


Re: Remix
Phat writes:

so does "doing like Christ" mean praying a large portion of the day?

What makes you think He did that? I mean, is it in the Bible, or is it just another one of those things that fundies make up to separate Jesus from us?

The whole idea of God becoming man has enormous implications. To throw that belief away is to reduce God to whatever philosophical concept one chooses to ascribe to Him.

All ideas about God are philosophical concepts that people choose to ascribe to Him. I'm just trying to elevate (not reduce) those ideas above the comedy stylings of the fundamentalists.

The issue seems to hinge on whether doing good simply for the sake of doing good carrys as much weight with God as the concept of trusting in Him and allowing His Spirit to permeate your daily life.

If we trust in Him and allow His Spirit to permeate our daily lives, what other effect could there be than doing good simply for the sake of doing good?

Conversely, if somebody doesn't do good simply for the sake of doing good, how can he be trusting in God? And how can he be allowing God's Spirit to permeate his daily life?


“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Phat, posted 10-05-2007 4:47 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Phat, posted 12-19-2017 6:42 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18129
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 101 of 133 (426217)
10-05-2007 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by iano
10-05-2007 5:11 PM


Re: Phat & Jar: how we explain their "Christianity"
iano writes:

quote:
So who is this enemy?

Everyone who is not saved. Jar, Percy, Dr Adequate, Schraf, PaulK, Chiroptera, Larni, Omnivorous...

Are there going to be warning signs around this "heaven" of yours, so those of us not on your list don't wander in by mistake? :)


“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by iano, posted 10-05-2007 5:11 PM iano has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18129
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 132 of 133 (825925)
12-19-2017 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by Phat
12-19-2017 6:42 AM


Re: Remix
Phat writes:

You were more open to how a believer thinks back then! Dont throw that away....


I am open to how a believer thinks but you could try thinking something new for a change.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Phat, posted 12-19-2017 6:42 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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