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Author Topic:   Why, if god limited man's life to 120 years, did people live longer?
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 106 of 230 (415921)
08-12-2007 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by carnutter23
08-12-2007 7:31 PM


carnutter23 writes:
... his view of time is not human but that he looks down on time as if all of time is on a 2d timescale.
It doesn't really matter what God's view of time is. The Bible was written for humans, so only a human view of time makes sense.
Welcome to EvC. Lace up your Kevlar.

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
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Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Raphael, posted 09-29-2007 4:05 AM ringo has replied

  
pbee
Member (Idle past 6027 days)
Posts: 339
Joined: 06-20-2007


Message 107 of 230 (416590)
08-16-2007 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by thestickman
12-05-2002 10:00 AM


quote:
In Genesis 6:3 'The the Lord said "I will not allow people to live for ever; they are mortal. From now on they will live no longer that 120 years"'. Now, after this there are examples of people living longer than 120 years (genesis 23:1 'Sarah lived to be 127 years old' being one of them). Now i know there are many believed contradictions in the bible and they are continually refuted (although not always with proper reasoning and fact) and I tried to find reasoning for this seemingly massive contradiction, but couldn't find any. So, any help?
God set a time limit for the existence of the evil which had consumed the land, saying "My Spirit shall certainly not remain among these men for ever, because they are flesh, but their days shall be an hundred and twenty years". These words would of been spoken to Noah. Shortly after this Noah saw his first son, born in 2470 BCE, and the records show another son, two years later. although the time of the latter was not stated, they were grown and married when Noah received his instructions to build the ark. Consequently, it is likely that only 40 or 50 years remained before the Deluge. Noah then set to work as a builder and "a preacher" warning that wicked generation of the impending destruction to come.
God was not going to act compassionately toward those for an indefinite period of time, so now he set a limit for that generation to get deeper and deeper into degradation, so far away from the image and likeness of God in which he had created the first man of flesh and blood. Twelve more decades would pass before they faced an act of God.

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Refpunk
Member (Idle past 6052 days)
Posts: 60
Joined: 08-17-2007


Message 108 of 230 (416886)
08-18-2007 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by thestickman
12-05-2002 10:00 AM


It's no coincidence that after Noah, the trillions of people who have lived since then have not lived longer than 120 years. And since the birth records of the FEW people who have claimed to have lived longer have been conveniently "lost" then there's no proof that anyone ever has.

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Raphael
Member (Idle past 462 days)
Posts: 173
From: Southern California, United States
Joined: 09-29-2007


Message 109 of 230 (424874)
09-29-2007 4:05 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by ringo
08-12-2007 10:10 PM


In respone to you, Ringo, you are both right and wrong.The way you said it, you are wrong. God does view time differntly than humans, him being Immortal makes the way he sees amounts of time differntly,but you're right in the sense that, when God intrusted humans to write events that took place, the humans wrote in their time so 120 years would be 120 years not 400million years or whatever. There is a great difference between prophetic time and regular time,and,even though regular time makes more sense, prophetic time is used in the bible, especially in Daniel and Revelation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by ringo, posted 08-12-2007 10:10 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Raphael, posted 09-29-2007 4:19 AM Raphael has not replied
 Message 111 by ringo, posted 09-29-2007 11:57 AM Raphael has replied

  
Raphael
Member (Idle past 462 days)
Posts: 173
From: Southern California, United States
Joined: 09-29-2007


Message 110 of 230 (424875)
09-29-2007 4:19 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by Raphael
09-29-2007 4:05 AM


The Version of the Bible you use can also make a large impact. The Clear Word says:
God saw this and said "more and more of my people are turning against me, the human body has become their god. My Holy Spirit will not work with them endlessly. I will give them one hundred and twenty years to change their ways." Genesis 6:3
By going off of this version of the Bible, and many others, you can see that God didn't mean lifespan when he was talking here, because, if that were true, Mathusala, Noah's grandfather, wouldn't have lived as long as he did. I'm not here to start a debate on Mathusala, but that is what it says in the Bible.
Edited by Raphael, : editing a word.

Why Are We so Simple-Minded?
I Know it's Easy to Deny the Truth.............Search Your Heart for What You Believe to be True. Then, Considering Your Morals, Decide if this, in Your Heart of Hearts, is What you Truly Believe.

This message is a reply to:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 111 of 230 (424943)
09-29-2007 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by Raphael
09-29-2007 4:05 AM


Raphael writes:
God does view time differntly than humans....
If you're suggesting that God can't view time the way humans do, you're suggesting a very limited God.
My point was that if the Bible is a communication from God to mankind, then the view of time in the Bible would have to be a human view.
There is a great difference between prophetic time and regular time....
Terms like "prophetic time" are usually made up to make it look like prophecies have been fulfilled when they really haven't.
But prophecy is another topic.

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by Raphael, posted 10-06-2007 6:41 PM ringo has replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 112 of 230 (426332)
10-06-2007 5:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by thestickman
12-05-2002 10:00 AM


Easy. The 120 years was not how long man would live. It was a time till some big event for man would come, a warning. In other words, sort of like
'Man, this is the Almighty, and in 120 years something real real big is coming down.
Many assumed this was the flood. I used to assume the same thing, which is one reason why some still say it took 120 years to build the ark.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Brian, posted 10-06-2007 5:36 AM simple has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4958 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 113 of 230 (426335)
10-06-2007 5:36 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by simple
10-06-2007 5:07 AM


I used to assume the same thing
What do you assume now?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by simple, posted 10-06-2007 5:07 AM simple has replied

Replies to this message:
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simple 
Inactive Member


Message 114 of 230 (426406)
10-06-2007 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by Brian
10-06-2007 5:36 AM


I now feel that the 120 year warning was warning of a time that the fabric of the universe of man would be changed, and the spiritual and physical no longer together. If you recall, the tower of babel, and the 'division' of Peleg's day fell about 120 years after that warning.
Peleg, according to a very popular and accepted method of chronology, was born 101 years after the flood. If this warning was 19 years, or so before that, we still had a lot of time for the year of the flood, and building of the ark as well. No need to go with the old idea that it was the flood that the warning referred to, and that it took 120 years to build it.
Edited by simple, : No reason given.

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Raphael
Member (Idle past 462 days)
Posts: 173
From: Southern California, United States
Joined: 09-29-2007


Message 115 of 230 (426444)
10-06-2007 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by ringo
09-29-2007 11:57 AM


No, I'm not. God is not limited, he can view time in any way he chooses to. It's just because he's been living for infinity its a little hard to see time in the same way as measly humans. I agree with your second point though, the bible would have to to be in a human perspetive of time for us to properly understand it. And, judging by the fact that the bible was written by humans,inspired by God, of course, they probably would write in a time-sense which was failiar to them.
Prophetic time is not an excuse to make prophecies look like they've been fulfilled. Prophetic time is used to determine certain future events, and anyone who can understand it, and there are many people who can, will know that almost every Prophecy in the bible has been fulfilled.

Why Are We so Simple-Minded?
I Know it's Easy to Deny the Truth.............Search Your Heart for What You Believe to be True. Then, Considering Your Morals, Decide if this, in Your Heart of Hearts, is What you Truly Believe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by ringo, posted 09-29-2007 11:57 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by ringo, posted 10-06-2007 8:09 PM Raphael has not replied
 Message 117 by doctrbill, posted 10-07-2007 3:24 PM Raphael has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 116 of 230 (426454)
10-06-2007 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by Raphael
10-06-2007 6:41 PM


Raphael writes:
... almost every Prophecy in the bible has been fulfilled.
We have some threads on prophecy and somebody (probably not me) will be glad to eat you alive point out how you are mistaken.

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Raphael, posted 10-06-2007 6:41 PM Raphael has not replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 117 of 230 (426567)
10-07-2007 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by Raphael
10-06-2007 6:41 PM


Raphael writes:
... because he's been living for infinity its a little hard to see time in the same way as measly humans.
Poor God!
That could be a serious problem for a time traveller.
Would that explain why he hasn't been seen around here lately?
Is there something we can do to help him with that?
PS
Does he also have that problem with humans who are not "measly."

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
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Lithodid-Man
Member (Idle past 2930 days)
Posts: 504
From: Juneau, Alaska, USA
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 118 of 230 (437301)
11-29-2007 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by herrmann
05-22-2007 8:50 PM


Old post, I know, but an important point....
I just ran across this 6 month old post by Herrmann:
Herrmann writes:
Furthermore, in congruence to the Flood Theory, Water evaporated in the sky ( as evident from Gen 1:7 "And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. ") This could be cause to slow the penetration of UV rays, and thus extend the lifetime of the occupants of the planet earth.
I decided to reply as I have heard this claim recently, in one case presented at a public creation seminar. The water vapor canopy idea, made popular by Morris & Whitcomb in 1961 (as far back as I can trace it), essentially claims that the Earth was once surrounded by a 'shell' of either water vapor or (in some models) liquid water. The idea is that this shell would serve three purposes. 1) The water would screen out UV and other harmful radiation thus enabling people to live centuries 2) The vapor would trap heat making the entire Earth a lush tropical paradise, and 3) The vapor would increase the amount of 'good' light (I assume they mean long wavelength) again contributing to plant growth.
I am not going to elaborate on the physics of such a canopy but want to point out a big flaw in the biological aspects of such. Water and water vapor screen out long wavelengths and is nearly invisible to short wavelengths. This is a critical aspect in oceanography called light attenuation with depth. Red light is long wavelength and is the most important for green plants. Water (ocean) and water vapor (clouds) block red light very well. Shortwave radiation, including UV, passes right through water and water vapor. This is why you can get nasty sunburns on cloudy days. A world with a water canopy would support few if any green plants and the UV would tend to cook surface life. It is however true that such a canopy would heat things up a bit, as recent evidence suggests for Venus.

"I have seen so far because I have stood on the bloated corpses of my competitors" - Dr Burgess Bowder

This message is a reply to:
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Creationist
Member (Idle past 5645 days)
Posts: 95
Joined: 10-19-2007


Message 119 of 230 (438045)
12-02-2007 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by thestickman
12-05-2002 10:00 AM


Ryan
What version of the Bible are you reading?
Edited by Creationist, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by thestickman, posted 12-05-2002 10:00 AM thestickman has not replied

  
imageinvisible
Member (Idle past 5917 days)
Posts: 132
From: Arlington, Texas, US
Joined: 12-03-2007


Message 120 of 230 (438775)
12-06-2007 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Brian
12-05-2002 10:31 AM


Love you guys
First and formost I just want to say that I love you guys. You're efforts are qiute valliant; however I know Who your opponent is, and He's not gonna lose.
Gen. 6:3 Yes God says that He will not suffer man to live and that His days shall be 120 yrs.
but there is one execption
Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.
If you read further you will see why Noah (and his desendants lived past this 120 yr. mark. See Gen ch. 9:1 and 9:28
Noah did not build the ark overnight. 300 c * 50 c * 30 c c=cubit
cubit=the length of a mans forarm or 17-22" Normally when we calculate the size of the ark we use the formula 1 cubit = 18" or 1.5'. 450 ft. * 75ft. * 45ft thats 1,518,750 ft^3 It took Noah 120 years to build this boat.
After which everything which has breath died, except for those who where in the ark.
If you keep reading God actually sets this same 120 year age limit on the life span of man again when Moses died. Only this time, as the text indicates, there where no acceptions.
If you keep reading God actually sets this same 120 year age limit on the life span of man again when Moses died. Only this time, as the text indicates, there where no acceptions.
Strick this assertion, it is not supported by the Bible there is no verse after moses dies to support this claim.
God bless all of you and keep reading.
Edited by imageinvisible, : added text in qs box

21 Yet these may ye eat of every flying creeping thing that goeth upon [all] four, which have legs above their feet, to leap withal upon the earth;
22 [Even] these of them ye may eat; the locust after his kind, and the bald locust after his kind, and the beetle after his kind, and the grasshopper after his kind

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Brian, posted 12-05-2002 10:31 AM Brian has not replied

  
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