Moderation Procedures to level the playing field

I think that it is essential that the Administrators do all that they can to create an environment where all can present their best argument in support of their position.For some positions, this is fairly easy, there is an overwhelming body of evidence available or reason and logic and reality. Other positions are based primarily on emotion, myth and superstition.I think that the Administrators need to consider the basic supportability of a position, and when it is an emotional or superstition position, the Administrators should allow greater leeway from posters allowing them the freedom to use personal attacks on others, allowing the supporters of those positions to label those they are responding to as morons or freaks, even threatening others with physical harm or being shot.This does not mean that other people involved in the debate should not be allowed to challenge such positions, but that the challengers from the position of reason, evidence, logic and reality should be restricted in their challenge from using personal attack and required to address the argument not the individual.Those trying to support the emotional, illogical, irrational positions should be allowed the only tools they have available, personal attack, misrepresentation, misdirection and goal shifting.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

One problem is that it appears simply allowing Biblical Christians, YECs, IDists, OECs and Biblical Creationists to use personal attacks, misrepresentation, misdirection, false statements and moving goal posts may not be enough in their eyes. The positions they try to advocate are so weak, so flawed, so bankrupt that it appears they can only stand when never challenged.This is certainly a continuing trend with the growth of Avoidance Education and the recent tactics of groups such as Creation Science Evangelism (CSE).I believe that at EvC we need to allow everyone to make their best possible argument in support of their position, regardless of how weak that argument might be. However I do not agree with avoiding challenges to any position. The simple fact that positions like "Special Creation", "Young Earth", the "Flood", the "Exodus", "Biblical Creationism" or "Literal Biblical Interpretation" are unsupportable should not preclude either challenges to those positions or attempts to support them.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

An issue came up recently in Message 49, where a member was warned that calling the TOE stupid was suggesting that members were stupid.While such an argument when made without supporting the position with evidence or reason is a weak argument, when it is all that the person has available, should they be denied the right to use even the minimal tools they have?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Good, then how about promoting my new PNT that actually addresses the potential avenues open to Creationists.While this thread deals primarily with Moderation Procedures, that one deals with the possible venues of supporting a Creationist argument.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

On TrueCreation.Chris was and still is a vibrant, bright person. However back then, TC was also still a kid in high school. Since those days, TC has grown up, is now a junior in college. As he currently describes himself: The last time I talked with Chris was just before they hauled Hovind away. He had been calling in to Hovind's infomercial show and raking Hovind over the coals.While I still believe TC could do a better job of supporting the Biblical Creationist position than most who show up here today, he also knows that the current models presented are absolute bunk.This happens.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

There is another related phenomenon, and that is since the Biblical Christians and Biblical Creationist positions really don't stand up to examination, since they cannot successfully support their position in an open environment, they simply don't try to support their position, but rather withdraw and hide their ideas in some isolated little ghetto where they no longer have to face challenge.That can be seen in the growth of all the "Avoidance Schools", things like "GodTube", the brazillion or two "Christian Televangelists", the separate and unequal "Creation Museums" and other efforts to hide away in some separate universe when they do not face challenge and question. We have even had a member who could not face open challenge of her positions here at EvC and so simply cried and whined and demanded to get her way or to be banned until she got her wish, then set up her own little controlled environment where SHE could control the content and avoid challenge.Is that also what is seen here?Can the avoidance and ghetto mentality succeed?Edited by jar, : appalin spallin

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I assume you can show where Percy has ever controlled content or avoided challenge?AbE:Actually EvC is a great example of open discussion. TTBOMK No ONE has even been banned or even suspended at EvC based on their opinions. People are regularly allowed to post their best possible argument in support of their position no matter how weak it is.Edited by jar, : No reason given.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

You were never suspended based on your opinions. Even when it comes to your behavior, because you are a Biblical Christian you have been allowed to break rules that would get an Evolutionist suspended.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I hope you can support that.Now to the question.Do you think the tactic of isolation, ghetto mentality and avoidance that seems to be the trend among the Biblical Christian community can be effective? Is hiding away and avoiding having beliefs challenged an effect lifestyle?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Ah, perhaps yet another personal attack on a member, instead of addressing content.I have been trying to convince the Administration here that those should not be considered suspendable infractions when committed by a Biblical Christian or Creationist.That is pertinent to this thread.Should Biblical Christians be held to as high a standard of behavior as everyone else? If so, do you think that Biblical Christians could behave in a manner that would allow them to continue posting here or would we just end up suspending all the potential supporters of Biblical Creationism simply because they cannot behave within the rules?Edited by jar, : fix subtitle

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

It is true that the Creationists do look pretty awful, but we still need to let them present the best support of their position they can muster even if they destroy their own credibility doing so.Look at Message 14 where an allegation is made and never supported and Message 22 where the poster himself posts how he attacked the individual instead of the argument and Message 25 and Message 26.What can be done to help the Creationists?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

But how should we deal with a poster who calls another poster a freak?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

What about a member who says another member should be taken out and shot?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

How do you rate saying another member should be shot?Do they get three shots?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Even when physically threatening another member? Interesting.What about the poster who constantly makes assertions specifying some imagined evidence that the poster claims supports his position but then refuses to discuss those asserted "evidences".

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion