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Author Topic:   Irreducible complexity at the microscopic level
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1488 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 4 of 27 (426797)
10-08-2007 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Kitsune
10-08-2007 5:26 PM


How did this complex and sophisticated system of signaling molecules come to establish an encoding mechanism, a decoding mechanism, a suitable medium, and a protocol (a language of communication understood by both the encoder and the decoder)?
They didn't, because that's not how they work at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Kitsune, posted 10-08-2007 5:26 PM Kitsune has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Kitsune, posted 10-09-2007 1:53 AM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1488 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 12 of 27 (426908)
10-09-2007 2:31 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Kitsune
10-09-2007 1:53 AM


If these molecules, and genes themselves, do not function like a computer, then how do they function?
Direct physical contact. The molecules, I think, are enzymes. Enzymes catalyze chemical reactions by binding other molecules in their "active site". They're fairly selective in terms of what molecules can "fit" in the site, like a key inside a lock.
If you think of a DNA strand being read inside the cell, there's an enzyme called RNA polymerase running down the strand like the tab on a zipper, spitting out an RNA copy of the DNA it's reading like a ticker-tape machine.
So imagine you wanted to send a simple signal to stop that process. If you introduced an enzyme keyed to bind to the strand of DNA at a specific place (determined by gene sequence), then the big chunk of enzyme stuck to the DNA would block the RNA polymerase, like a glob of chewing gum stuck in your zipper.
Like I said it's almost too simple to be called "signalling." It's a signal the same way that throwing a wrench in the gears is a "signal" for the machine to stop.
Another analogy. You're driving down the road. I want you to stop. I send you a "signal" by driving a dump truck into the middle of the intersection and leaving it there.
You crash into it and stop. Did I just send you a "signal?" What I did was almost too direct to use that term, don't you think? And wouldn't it be irrelevant to talk about the "medium", or the "protocol", or the "encoding mechanism"? I mean, I didn't send you a secret code that said "stop", I actually physically stopped you by direct physical contact.
Signalling molecules, I think, work the same way, if I recall my genetics correctly. (I'm no biochemist yet.) They're enzymes that tell a cell (for instance) to stop producing a certain protein product by getting in the nucleus and directly blocking the transcription of a specific gene, like a monkey wrench in the works.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Kitsune, posted 10-09-2007 1:53 AM Kitsune has replied

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 Message 19 by Kitsune, posted 10-09-2007 12:08 PM crashfrog has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1488 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 25 of 27 (427007)
10-09-2007 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Kitsune
10-09-2007 12:08 PM


So how would signaling molecules work to produce bilateral symmetry? What are they "stopping"?
So the other way a signaling molecule can work is by removing a monkey wrench that's already there, see? Because an enzyme can work on another enzyme, and disengage something that's blocking protein synthesis.
This is very roughly how gene expression can be controlled.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Kitsune, posted 10-09-2007 12:08 PM Kitsune has not replied

  
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