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Author Topic:   Irreducible complexity at the microscopic level
NosyNed
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Posts: 9004
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 5 of 27 (426809)
10-08-2007 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Kitsune
10-08-2007 5:26 PM


IC
Let's get clear that IC is a strawman.
It states that an IC structure will not function if you take anything away. It is deemed to be impossible to evolve by adding individual components.
That strawman deliberately ignores the possibility of something evolving by removing something. There are examples of exactly this. That is there are examples of something that will not function if a part if removed and we know how they evolved.
Just one example proves that the Behe idea of IC is not an issue for evolutionary theory. It is dead in the water before you look at any other examples whether you know how they come to be or not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Kitsune, posted 10-08-2007 5:26 PM Kitsune has replied

Replies to this message:
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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9004
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 11 of 27 (426907)
10-09-2007 2:26 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Kitsune
10-09-2007 1:46 AM


Removing a component
I think an IDer might reply to you that any equivalent vital components in a biological system would be equally devastating to the functioning of the organism if one or more was removed.
Yes, there are components in an organism the removal of which would be devastating.
So exactly what does that have to do with the evolution of the organism? You need to get the ID argument very clear. It is a deliberate fake straw man of evolution.
They say that because the current structure can not stand the removal of a part there is no way for that structure to evolve.
But there are ways they just deliberately exclude them. The whole idea of irreducible complexity is built on sand.

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9004
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 14 of 27 (426912)
10-09-2007 2:34 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Kitsune
10-09-2007 1:53 AM


Another analogy
Is the IDer's analogy here completely wrong; and if so, how? Would there be a more accurate analogy to use?
The "standard" analogy of IC is an arch built of dry stones. It is irreducibly complex because if you remove any stone the whole thing collapses. The IDists would say that you can there for not build an arch one stone at a time.
But, of course, you can. You need scaffolding in to support it while the arch is constructed. One the arch is complete it the scaffolding is removed and IDist would be utterly mystified as to how the arch was built because they do not allow something to be formed by removing something.
There are examples of this in biology so it is a pathway that has been followed and the IDists ignore it.
In all cases where no living reproducing things are used as an analogy for living things we have to be very careful. No one designs computers by duplicating a video card and making one of them serve as a motherboard and central processor. But that is just how living things evolve.

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