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Author Topic:   Science and Speech in Determining "Human" Kind
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 225 of 268 (427583)
10-12-2007 3:41 AM
Reply to: Message 222 by IamJoseph
10-12-2007 2:52 AM


definitions
Why do you think prominent and non-creationist scientists [specially biologists] state that speech, aside from it not being a subsequence or extension of communications seen in all life forms, is a problem in defining speech?
A three second stint with google gave me a working definition:
quote:
Speech is voice modulated by the throat, tongue, lips, etc, the modulation being accomplished by changing the form of the cavity of the mouth and nose through the action of muscles which move their walls.
Source. Wiki gives me another, similar definition:
quote:
Speech can be described as an act of producing voice through the use of the vocal folds and vocal apparatus to create a linguistic act designed to convey information.
I wouldn't confuse your ability to craft a definition, with the ability of biologists.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by IamJoseph, posted 10-12-2007 2:52 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by IamJoseph, posted 10-14-2007 12:07 AM Modulous has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 243 of 268 (428085)
10-14-2007 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by IamJoseph
10-14-2007 12:07 AM


Re: definitions
Your problem is the assumption no one remembered to click a search button. I am sure all the scientists quoted have read such 'descriptions' [as opposed definitions].
It was inevitably biologists that supplied the information used by lexicographers to compile the definitions - I made no assumption to the contrary.
Your other problem is, you have negated your own held premise: all the attributes listed therein [throat, tongue, lips, etc - modulation, cavities and throat muscles, etc] are commonplace with life forms, contradicting the unique human speech factor.
That's not my premise - the unique human speech factor is your premise. I have no qualms with definitions that harm your argument. Especially given that you have been unable to construct a definition that doesn't harm your argument that is not pointlessly tautological.
But you ARE affirming my premise by default.
By quoting definitions that undermine your assertion that human speech is a 'unique factor', I have affirmed your premise by default? Your logic is at least interesting, if completely backwards.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by IamJoseph, posted 10-14-2007 12:07 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by IamJoseph, posted 10-15-2007 3:29 AM Modulous has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 246 of 268 (428170)
10-15-2007 3:50 AM
Reply to: Message 244 by IamJoseph
10-15-2007 3:29 AM


Re: definitions
The problem is related to the factors mentioned in your definition: they subscribe to commonalities in all life forms, without defining any differences. There is no accounting for speech not seen in lions therein.
Yes, you said that the first time. I replied to it. It is a problem for your position, but not to mine. You are unable to find a definition that supports your position. You think that this is indicative for how special and wonderful speech is. I think it is because your position is wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by IamJoseph, posted 10-15-2007 3:29 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 248 by IamJoseph, posted 10-15-2007 3:57 AM Modulous has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 250 of 268 (428176)
10-15-2007 4:50 AM
Reply to: Message 248 by IamJoseph
10-15-2007 3:57 AM


Re: definitions
Sorry, I thought your position was that biologists thought that speech is a problem in defining speech and I thought my position was that biologists have no problem in defining speech and that it is you who have a problem with their definitons.
My mistake, thanks for the definitive correction.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by IamJoseph, posted 10-15-2007 3:57 AM IamJoseph has not replied

  
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