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Author Topic:   Noah's Flood Came Down. It's Goin Back Up!!
nator
Member (Idle past 2195 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 241 of 247 (42664)
06-12-2003 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 236 by Buzsaw
06-12-2003 1:07 AM


Ned posted a great reply, but I would just like to add that nearly ALL "naturalists" 180 years ago were members of the clergy or religiously-trained, because that's the kind of educational system that existed for the best and the brightest (men only, of course).
This was prior to science, as we know it today, becoming completely formalized and professionalized.
At that time, wealthy religious "gentlemen naturalists" went on expeditions to document and study nature and then reported their findings back to their societies. Not that their findings weren't scientific; Darwin was a great scientist in that he constantly questioned himself, and his premise of common descent with modification and proposed mechanism of natural selection have certainly held up to the most intense tests and scrutiny for nearly 200 years.
So, Buzsaw, there were nearly 100% Christian Creationists in all of western science back then.
There are very, very few accredited scientists who give Creation 'science' the time of day, and that's only in the US:
"According to Newsweek in 1987, "By one count there are some 700 scientists with respectable academic credentials (out of a total of 480,000 U.S. earth and life scientists) who give credence to creation-science..." That would make the support for creation science among those branches of science who deal with the earth and its life forms at about 0.14%"
Less that one percent, Buz. Of course, I could be wrong, as this data is from the late 80's.
I suppose you could just dismiss this statistic by saying all the scientists are brainwashed and that's why they don't use the Bible as a science book and invoke miracles in their work.
LOL!!
Anyway, it's becoming clear that you aren't interested in learning anything; not even the basic science you have rejected without understanding it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by Buzsaw, posted 06-12-2003 1:07 AM Buzsaw has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2195 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 242 of 247 (42665)
06-12-2003 9:18 AM


Buz, what about the seashells on top of mountains being accompanied by evidence of uplift?
Why are you avoiding this point?
------------------
"Evolution is a 'theory', just like gravity. If you don't like it, go jump off a bridge."

zephyr
Member (Idle past 4576 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 243 of 247 (42674)
06-12-2003 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by Buzsaw
06-12-2003 12:12 AM


Re: 14 pages
quote:
The events in the prophecies I've cited are to be fulfilled in the future, so what are you talking about,"took place??"
This is a Flood thread, and your "flood geology" requires the interpolation of all sorts of things that would never occur with natural causes. It takes massive changes to the laws of nature: impossible rates of tectonic plate movement and radiodecay, and hyper-evolution from a few animals in a couple of thousand years, which must have happened unless the current diversity was all present on the ark - and if it was, then thousands of miracles would have been absolutely necessary to keep it all alive and transport species to where they live today. Even your canopy prediction is outside of the specific, literal statements in the Bible.
quote:
Please cite specifics you're referring to. Imo, the proophecies I've cited support my statements.
As others have already said, and I agree, the prophecies are categorically generic enough to have been seen as "fulfilled" by other events in the past, only to be recycled today as evidence of the Bible's accuracy. Why are you right when they were all wrong? It's been the end times for 2,000 years....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by Buzsaw, posted 06-12-2003 12:12 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 244 of 247 (42704)
06-12-2003 3:05 PM


Time to close this one down?
The nature of the discussion at this topic reminds me of that first "Salty" topic. My inclination is that it's time to close this one, and have Buzsaw start a new topic (probibly best in the "Geology and the Great Flood" forum this time.
Adminnemooseus

IrishRockhound
Member (Idle past 4462 days)
Posts: 569
From: Ireland
Joined: 05-19-2003


Message 245 of 247 (42757)
06-12-2003 5:18 PM


Here we go...
That's what I was saying... this one's gone on long enough. So, here's a quick summary for everyone, based on the original post.
quote:
1. Imo, I say, Imo, de deep flood did indeedy drop down.
2. The atmosphere was thick and high before the flood and provided a perfect climate for then relatively smooth planet earth which had small oceans and likely about 70% of the planet's surface continent.
There's enough evidence around against the Flood, so I won't bother posting it all again. So far buzsaw has not clarified what he means by thick and high, or 'surface continent'.
quote:
3. The thin crusts of earth sank into the molten center, creating the deep oceans via the weight of the enormous volumn of water.
4. The weight of the huge volumn of water produced enough weight force to push the displaced molten earth core under the continents and raise up the mountain ranges. Thus the fact that most, I say most, are near the coasts.
Coragyps refuted this in post #7, as did I in post #22. A few others joined in too, and Buzsaw did not produce any evidence to support this statement.
quote:
5. According to the prophets, we're headed for big time drought and global warming.
It has been shown that global warming does not necessarily equal drought, except on a local level (Percipient in #74). Buzsaw switched to talking about this around post #55. In post #66 he suggests that a miracle could cause the drought. He then goes on to discuss the apparent increase in forest fires as proof, which was refuted by many people, especially NosyNed.
quote:
6. According to the prophet John, a meteor will likely hit an ocean, wiping out a third of the ships.
Macavity provided a handy link in post #73 about the logistics of a meteor strike, which Buzsaw never responded to.
quote:
7. Add up these, i.e. drought, global warming and meteor and/or huge continental shift and you have big time evaporation and possibly a bit of an adjustment in the position of planet earth.
Also refuted by Macavity's post. Buzsaw later doubled back on this in post #98, in replying to Percipient's post.
quote:
8. The Biblical prophets predict a time coming on earth where men again live long lives and the climate of earth get so good that the "plowman will overtake the reaper".
No one really got excited over this - I suppose it's incidental to the main discussion. Percipient pointed out that prophesies 'back-fitted' to events that have already happened are not really prophesies at all, in reference to Buzsaw continually stating that global warming had been predicted by the Bible.
quote:
9. The Biblical prophets predict that the sun and moon will be darkened some and when Christ Messiah returns to earth, he will come "with clouds." The world's atmosphere will become cloudy as drought and heat prevail.
John and Coragyps tackled this one - and eventually provided the numbers behind how much water the atmosphere could hold and how hot the Earth would get. This was the whole vapour canopy thing, for which Buzsaw provided no calculations or scientific explanations. Another miracle was invoked in post #113. Many others joined in here, asking questions about this idea - Buzsaw did not provide any reasonable answers.
quote:
10. The prophets predict violent weather and earthquakes, etc for "latter days".
11. One of the last things to happen in latter days is this humungus worldwide earthquake that levels all cities, islands and mountains. (This, imo, due to the evaporation of the oceans and the rewarping of earth's surface to preflood relatively smooth surface.
This was discarded early on, as earthquakes are not caused by this and the idea of a worldwide quake is ridiculous.
quote:
10. I'm adding this all up to conclude that the super climate which was in place before Noah's flood will indeed return to planet earth, essentially making it again a terrarium type environment.
This wasn't really addressed either, as Buzsaw never defined what he meant by 'super climate'.
All this was posted before page 11 of this thread. The rest of the thread consists of everyone posting the same stuff over and over again, because Buzsaw apparently didn't read them the first or second time.
Draw your own conclusions.
The Rock Hound
------------------
"Science constantly poses questions, where religion can only shout about answers."

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by Adminnemooseus, posted 06-12-2003 6:15 PM IrishRockhound has not replied

Brian
Member (Idle past 4985 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 246 of 247 (42769)
06-12-2003 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by NosyNed
06-12-2003 1:23 AM


Re: sea shells
Hi Ned,
Buz, if the shells were put there by a global flood over only 1 year just 6,000 years ago what would you expect to see when you looked at the shells?
I don't want to nit pick, but you are being generous to the creationists here. A more accurate chronology would be around 4400 years ago. Creation was 4004 BCE and the Flood was around 1600 years later.
This is more problematic for literalists, all the diverse civilisations that we have, and all the billions of people, just from the 8 people who were on the Ark.
The Flood was such a devasting event that the Egyptians blinked and missed the enrite event.
Cheers!
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by NosyNed, posted 06-12-2003 1:23 AM NosyNed has not replied

Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 247 of 247 (42771)
06-12-2003 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 245 by IrishRockhound
06-12-2003 5:18 PM


Re: Here we go... - Closing down
quote:
All this was posted before page 11 of this thread. The rest of the thread consists of everyone posting the same stuff over and over again,...
Works for me - Closing topic.
Adminnemooseus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by IrishRockhound, posted 06-12-2003 5:18 PM IrishRockhound has not replied

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