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Author
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Topic: The Bible was NOT man made, it was Godly made
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 132 of 320 (416900)
08-18-2007 12:06 PM
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Reply to: Message 130 by Refpunk
08-18-2007 11:53 AM
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Re: Speaking as a believer.
All one needs to do is read the bible to see that those prophecies are supported by the bible. I'm sorry but the Bible cannot prove the Bible.
So once again, one can't refute something he doesn't understand or has not even read. So I won't even listen to people who don't even know what the bible says. And your support for that assertion is? The topic question is whether or not the Bible is a product of man or God. The fact is that there is not even such a thing as "THE" Bible, rather there are many different Canons. A second fact is that many parts of the Bible can be shown to be factually false, there was never a world wide flood, the conquest of Canaan never happened as described in the Bible, the Exodus is just a myth. In addition, many of the prophecies can be shown to be false or are simply examples of quotemining and post hoc reasoning. If the "Bible" is Godly made, then God could not make up his mind and decided to include fiction along with facts.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 130 by Refpunk, posted 08-18-2007 11:53 AM | | Refpunk has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 139 of 320 (417073)
08-19-2007 10:54 AM
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Reply to: Message 130 by Refpunk
08-18-2007 11:53 AM
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Re: Speaking as a believer.
Still waiting for replies to Message 132. The topic of this thread is whether the Bible is human of godly made. The support for the position that it is human made rests on several pillars.
- there are many absolutely factually false tales in the Bible such as the story of a world-wide flood, the destruction of all life with the exception of small groups of animals, the Exodus and the Conquest of Canaan.
- there is no one unique "Bible" but rather several different Canons that include from only five books, to over 80 books.
- most of the "prophecy" found in the Bible seems to be either post hoc reasoning, quotemining or just plain false.
- there is no one uniform depiction of God that is common throughout the Bible.
- material has been rearranged, newer material being inserted before older material.
- many of the stories, for example the creation myths found in Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 are mutually exclusive.
These facts, particularly the fact that there is not one Bible, demonstrate that the Bible is but the work of man.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 130 by Refpunk, posted 08-18-2007 11:53 AM | | Refpunk has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 142 of 320 (417432)
08-21-2007 1:02 AM
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Reply to: Message 141 by kbertsche
08-21-2007 12:53 AM
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Re: Speaking as a believer.
The orthodox Christian position (spelled out at Chalcedon) is that He was both--fully human and fully divine. A great topic for a different thread.
Even if all of your points are true, this does not mean that the Bible is NOT also from God. Which Bible. The one with only five books or the one with over 80 books? So God included false prophecy and factually false stories? God decided to create mutually exclusive descriptions of God to keep folk guessing? If the Bible is "God Made", then God got lots of it wrong and never could make up Her mind just what "The Bible" should say. However, if the Bible is man made, created by men inspired by God, then the contradictions, absolute false portions, even the post hoc and quotemined prophecies can be understood.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 141 by kbertsche, posted 08-21-2007 12:53 AM | | kbertsche has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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The only thing that makes something a Bible.
Someone can call anything a "Bible" that he likes, but that doesn't make it so. How silly. Canons are not an example of someone calling anything a "Bible", Canons are what actually makes something a Bible. The ONLY thing that makes something a "Bible" is being included in a Canon, a listing of authorized content put together by a committee.
The present thread is not about canonicity, but about authorship. Well, we do know that if God was the author God is either ignorant, deluded or a liar. So that much can be handled quickly. Edited by jar, : fix subtitle
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 144 by kbertsche, posted 08-21-2007 3:21 PM | | kbertsche has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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On Canon
Good questions, but discussions of canon and translations should be in another thread (these topics would quickly derail this thread). But the ONLY thing that makes something a Bible is whether or not it is adopted under a Canon. You cannot remove consideration of Canon from the issue "The Bible was NOT man made, it was Godly made" since the ONLY thing that makes something "A Bible" is whether or not it adheres to one of the Canons. Edited by jar, : change sub-title
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 169 by kbertsche, posted 08-27-2007 5:08 PM | | kbertsche has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 238 of 320 (426039)
10-04-2007 9:15 PM
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Reply to: Message 237 by Rahvin
10-04-2007 9:09 PM
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Not Trent either.
The Councils of Trent went on from December 13, 1545 to December 4, 1563.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 237 by Rahvin, posted 10-04-2007 9:09 PM | | Rahvin has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 241 of 320 (426363)
10-06-2007 9:04 AM
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Reply to: Message 240 by Kapyong
10-06-2007 7:38 AM
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spurious is a poor choice of wording.
Any modern NT commentary should agree - the Pastorals have long been considered spurious. I would not say spurious. They exist. They are most likely attributions as you point out but that was also a relatively common and accepted practice until pretty recently.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 240 by Kapyong, posted 10-06-2007 7:38 AM | | Kapyong has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 244 by Equinox, posted 10-08-2007 12:57 PM | | jar has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 245 of 320 (426686)
10-08-2007 1:03 PM
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Reply to: Message 244 by Equinox
10-08-2007 12:57 PM
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Re: spurious is a poor choice of wording.
Right, both happened. So the response is not "They are Forgeries" or "Spurious" but rather they are unknown source.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 244 by Equinox, posted 10-08-2007 12:57 PM | | Equinox has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 249 of 320 (427062)
10-09-2007 3:41 PM
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Reply to: Message 248 by Equinox
10-09-2007 3:33 PM
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Re: spurious is a poor choice of wording.
My main point was that whatever term is used should be used for both canonical and non-canonical works. So pseudepigrapha seems to be the term that works best for everyone. I have no problem with that.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 248 by Equinox, posted 10-09-2007 3:33 PM | | Equinox has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 253 of 320 (427878)
10-13-2007 10:08 AM
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Reply to: Message 251 by ILoveGod
10-13-2007 5:34 AM
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Re: spurious is a poor choice of wording.
Well, nothing in your post has anything to do with the fact that the Bible is man made.
Sure you can bring up some of the things some false Christians did, but they were not really Christians... they just were outwardly, which means they were just pretending to be. And false Christians involved in the crusades again were just pretending to be Christians, that is, they pretended to turn the other cheek, and pretended to pray for those who persecute them, and pretended to love each other as Jesus loved us. Or else they wouldn't have murdered all of those people. Christian means to be a follower of Christ, not one who only pretends to be. Coral Ridge's message, like so much of the Christian Cult of Ignorance, is simply a way to avoid being honest about Christianity. Saying that others are not real Christians is a nice easy copout excuse and very convenient.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 251 by ILoveGod, posted 10-13-2007 5:34 AM | | ILoveGod has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 264 of 320 (428052)
10-14-2007 12:03 PM
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Reply to: Message 256 by ILoveGod
10-13-2007 11:47 PM
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Re: spurious is a poor choice of wording.
wow, Christianity is not a cult, it is not even a religion, is it reality Sorry but I am a Christian and I know that it is a religion, the Evolution is fact, that there was something like the Big Bang.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 256 by ILoveGod, posted 10-13-2007 11:47 PM | | ILoveGod has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 270 of 320 (429215)
10-18-2007 8:59 PM
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Reply to: Message 269 by ILoveGod
10-18-2007 8:52 PM
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Re: spurious is a poor choice of wording.
So, ILoveGod, as with the "Ten Commandments" there are two of you?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 269 by ILoveGod, posted 10-18-2007 8:52 PM | | ILoveGod has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 273 of 320 (429219)
10-18-2007 9:10 PM
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Reply to: Message 271 by ILoveGod
10-18-2007 9:01 PM
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Re: spurious is a poor choice of wording.
Lots of unsupported assertions ILoveGod.
The only reason anyone who has actually looked it closely and still believes in evolution is because it is the only thing that can let them believe there is no God, and therefore they can be their own God and keep doing evil because in their mind they will never have to be held accountable for their actions. Totally false assertion that has already been shown to be wrong. I am a Christian, believe in God and that the Theory of Evolution is the best explanation of what is seen. You need to stop posting things that have already been shown to be false or just keep making Christians look stupid.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 271 by ILoveGod, posted 10-18-2007 9:01 PM | | ILoveGod has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 275 of 320 (429222)
10-18-2007 9:13 PM
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Reply to: Message 272 by ILoveGod
10-18-2007 9:06 PM
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Re: spurious is a poor choice of wording.
Well contact an Admin and have them merge your accounts. Posting under more than one account is a violation of forum rules. And also, try to address the topic. In case you missed it, the topic is "The Bible was NOT man made, it was Godly made". Evolution is irrelevant. The Ten Commandments are irrelevant.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 272 by ILoveGod, posted 10-18-2007 9:06 PM | | ILoveGod has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 279 of 320 (429229)
10-18-2007 9:40 PM
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Reply to: Message 278 by ILoveGod
10-18-2007 9:35 PM
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Re: Cliff and ILoveGod ID's have been merged
And no one is really an idiot, they are just completely mislead into believing things like a little monkey is their ancestor, and once upon a time a bunch of absolutely nothing exploded, and became monkeys building scyscrapers and programming computers. Still off topic, irrelevant and of no importance. The topic, in case you missed it is "The Bible was NOT man made, it was Godly made", do you have anything relevant to post?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 278 by ILoveGod, posted 10-18-2007 9:35 PM | | ILoveGod has replied |
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