Wholley Jesus!

A plausable interpretation of Jesus in the story as told in the bible: a review from a personal perspectiveJesus was a bordering lunatic and paid the highest price for it. He suffered and died horribly for a belief system created from a naieve point of view. He had the power to save himself but he wanted humanity to 'choose' to follow him. What an idiot! Who would choose to be persecuted and then cruxified to death?
It appears he was under some illusion that his suffering and death would save humanity from sin. Did it work? Two thousand years and humanity is suffering more than ever from the sins of humanity.
His beliefs included turning the other cheek and loving his enemies. At worst, the problem with following them is that those who don't follow these teachings are sometimes beaten and killed by those preaching the holy scriptures. In this case, his beliefs created sins.
Holy shit! In other words.........the goodies become baddies and force the baddies to conform to become goodies. Once mission is accomplished, the original goodies, who turned baddies for a cause, then revert to being goodies The goodies are allowed to be baddies because their belief system is the right one. Ah, now I see how it all works. The ones with the most power rule.
Thanks Jesus you managed to divide humanity single handedly. That's power!I'm sure you have a totally different perspective and different ideas and I would love to hear them.

This is solely about the adult life of Jesus beginning with the belief system Jesus lived by and the repercussions of his belief system in his life. The main justifcation of following Jesus is the promise of heaven after death or an afterlife.
Just supposing we have only one life and only one shot at it. Suppose there is no heaven and no afterlife. They haven't been proven as existing and if this is the case, life would be pointless and especially so if it is one of oppression. Not a pleasant proposition but isn't this life the only one we are truly aware of?
If this is the case and if there is a god, then why have we been created?
Could there be a completly different meaning or interpretation than we have been previously taught to believe?
Could the Jesus story, looked at from different angles and incorporating the whole picture of positive and negative effects reveal HOW life really works?

Doddy:[That wasn't because of what Jesus taught. If it found any support in the Bible, it would be from the intolerance of people that followed him.]The cause (of non-believers suffering) was still the enforcement of his teachings, by his followers. You would think that Jesus would have seen that coming.Doddy:[Nothing Jesus said could justify killing non-believers.]Nevertheless, it still happens.

Ringo [Oppression is caused by conflict between different people's points. Jesus' point was to get different people's points to live together in peace, without oppressing each other.]That may well have been the intention but by teaching the 'right' way and the interpretation of the 'right' way and the following of the 'right' way has, in fact, had the opposite effect. The beliefs derived from 'Jesus' actually create those willing to be oppressed. This is just one of the negative effects from the given interpretations of the Jesus life story. It is appearing he caused more harm than good.

Ringo [Jesus' alternative doesn't invite oppression. It discourages the endless spiral of retribution and encourages a more constructive approach.]Does it?

[That ye resist not EVIL: but WHOSOEVER shall smite thee on thy right cheek...]The question you should be asking is 'what do we do about the evil and the aggressor?' The way you see it doesn't address the problem at source.Hoping the aggressor will become passive is naieve. The aggressor(whosoever)is already abusing power by using physical violence. What caused the violence? If we don't resist evil, what do we do?

[Suppose you knock my eye out. If I knock yours out in return, that leaves both of us less capable of taking care of our families, etc. There's also a chance that you'll retaliate and I'll counter-retaliate and so on until one (or both) of us is crippled or dead.]And you think this isn't happening? What about the war on Iraq? What about the 7oo,ooo rapes in the United States every year? What about the terrorists? [On the other hand, if I turn the other cheek, there's at least a chance that you'll stop your attack. Turning the other cheek is an attempt to minimize the damage.]Is the chance worth taking? What if I have a knife and stab your cheek? Or does the non-violent concept only apply to slaps? It may be an attempt to minimise damage, but does it? It may have a chance of discouraging a very small number who are basically non-violent to begin with, but most physical abuse begins in anger and the concept of turning the other cheek is of no use whatsoever.

I haven't once suggested retaliation as a solution. I absolutely agree with non-violence but passivity doesn't work either.
I agree that no-one is born violent but some do become violent or develop a need for power, of these only a very small number would respond in a non-violent way if the other cheek was offered.
Be realistic. Your theories (or the bible's) do not end violence, do not bring peace, do not bring unity and haven't for thousands of years. Isn't a third alternative worth the search?

Equinox [Secondly - the words of Jesus that the Gospel accounts give us (regardless of how accurate they are) do not portray Jesus as a complete pacifist. He tells his followers to hate their families, he goes nuts and trashes the temple (in two independent accounts), and then there is this from Luke 22:He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."
The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords."
"That is enough," he replied.]Exactly, thanks. I peceive him as a nutter also. Maybe the Romans perceived him in the same way but dangerous too.My concept for this topic was to show that Jesus caused his own demise and caused\created both positive and negative effects and still is. I think if we examine the negative effects and see Jesus' life story from a different perspective, it would turn the teachings upside down.In other words we are not seeing the whole picture. We only have half. His followers chose to see the positive half whereas the enemies chose to see the negative half. Why?

[The alternatives on the table are turning the other cheek and not turning the other cheek. Feel free to suggest something else.]Exposure?

It's thinking outside the box, like a child who isn't box-trained yet.Do you mean like a child pees it's pants whilst being potty trained?

ringo [Don't waste posts with one-word answers. If you have something to say, say it.]It is the other way around, Ringo I've wasted many words in these posts.

ringo [Well, it's your topic. It's your responsibility to get your point across. If you think doing that's a "waste", you're probably in the wrong place.]My point is I will never get a point across to you personally whether I use many words or one. You didn't even look at the one word that was merely a suggestion. Edited by dameeva, : No reason given.

It's interesting that you read my physical analogy of your metaphorical statement as an objection. It wasn't meant to be an objection at all but perhaps it is as I disagree with you.
A child and thinking outside of the box do not equate with each other.
I was meaning that a child doesn't haven't a thinking capacity as you suggested with the statement (It's thinking outside the box, like a child who isn't box-trained yet.) Maybe a child doesn't have a box to be in or out of?

Thanks, I checked out the website pacifity of jesus and found it very interesting. It seems he contradicts his own rules.
But what if they are not his rules or guidelines? What if we are reading them wrong?
What if they are his assessment of the situation at hand? What if he was reacting to different situations differently as was appropriate in the moment?
This is what I am beginning to believe is the truth and really gives us the responsibility of making our own decisions without using jesus as a crutch.