What you want to know about Christ.

You really should read the Bible sometime if you're going to have discussions about it.In addition to the aforementioned Flood that killed everything on Earth:Genesis 19:24

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Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

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Exodus 12:29

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And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle.

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The entire book of Leviticus, nearly, is devoted to instructing the Hebrews on how to make blood sacrifices. I literally can't quote it all - it's almost the entire book.The core fucking tenet of Christianity is that God sacrificed himself as Jesus to himself on the Cross. At minimum that is human sacrifice. At most it's also batshit insane.This took me 5 minutes. There's a lot more. A LOT more. The Hebrews in the Bible commit genocide after genocide in the name of God, with his supposed approval (killing all of the males and taking the women and female children as their "wives," for example. Can you say rape?).The god described in the Bible is literally one of the most bloodthirsty characters ever devised by the human imagination. Even Hitler, Stalin, and Mao combined have nothing on the deity that supposedly killed every living thing on the planet except for a family with some animals on a boat. Thanks for admitting that he IS a bloodthirsty monster. After all, you wouldn't have to justify his mass murder this way if he wasn't in fact, a mass murderer. And by that same logic any woman should be able to kill their child - any time, at any age, for no reason, becasue she gave the child life, and so "has the right to take it away."Apparently your version of god is a sadistic little kid frying ants with a magnifying glass. While this certainly fits with the Biblical descriptions, the scary part is that you think that's just fine. "Do it or I'll make your life fucking miserable forever" is not a choice. That's what we call "force." If God knew Pharoah would let the Hebrews go, why would he harden Pharoah's heart so that he'd make them stay when the freaking goal was to give them freedom? If God knew that Pharoah would make the Hebrews stay, why would God need to harden Pharoah's heart? Are you dense? In this story, God specifically sets Pharoah up, using the Jedi Mind Trick to get him to say what God wants, so that God can rain plagues on Egypt and kill all of the firstborn children to flex his power muscle. He forced Pharoah to do what he wanted, then punished all of Egypt for Pharoah doing what God forced him to do, so that he could be "glorified."There's that kid with the magnifying glass again. "Look how great I am! Look what I can do!"

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Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

Blatantly false if (as is the case) the time period in question had several different competing doctrines.

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Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

No, THIS is what she said. Note the lack of the word "Church," or any mention of "300 years."

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It is also great evidence that myth changes as the needs of the religion change.

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John is very different in character than the other three Gospels. All the talk of a literal, in-the-flesh, very, very soon Second Coming present in the others is downplayed in John. Jesus's gift to us was changed into a spiritual, symbolic rebirth rather than the military victory of the rest of the Gospels.

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That's why the timing of the crucifiction was changed. Jesus becomes the symbolic "sacrificial Passover lamb" for all of humanity.

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The book of John is so entirely different in character to the other three Gospels as to suggest that the author had some very different beliefs, and individual details were added/changed to support the emerging doctrine.As the Christian religion formed and grew into more than a tiny cult, different schools of thought sprouted up (such as the Gnostics, for example). In other words, differences in texts appeared becasue of doctrinal differences. The determination of which set of beliefs would be the "official" one was not decided until much later (such that it was), and thus there were several competing systems of beliefs.Clearly, your statement: is false.

Let's just start off by saying the Egyptians had no choice - their fate was decided by one man - Pharoah. And, of course, he was forced by God to deny the Hebrews their freedom. God, in this instance, set Pharoah up so that he'd have some "excuse" to perform some wanton slaughter. We know how much he loves blood.But aside from that, there are still a lot of problems with this idea of yours. First, you just said that killing people for not believing in your God is okay. That's pretty messed up. When the 10 Commandments include such things as "thou shalt not covet" and several Commandments aimed at prohibiting worship of other gods (or no god), and ALL are supposed to be worthy of death...well, let's just say I'm very happy we don't live in that society any more.As for good people in Sodom - the generally accepted "sin" of Sodom was homosexuality. So now it's okay to kill off an entire city becasue they're gay? When Lot is considered "righteous" after offering up his daughters to be raped by a mob who wanted to check out the new arrivals (God's angels), I don't have much faith in God's ability to discern righteousness. Oh, and in case you don't believe me (so many Christians haven't read the Bible, after all):Genesis

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19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them...

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19:8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

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Your position also ignores the scale of such an event. We're talking about an entire city - that means even children, even babies, who could not possibly have sinned, or "repented" if they had wanted to.This problem only gets worse with the Flood. Now we're talking about a global event, one that kills ALL animals and human beings. Even with 100 years of "preaching," Noah could never have gotten to all of the people in the world. But God kills them anyway. Even the children. Even the babies.Your "choice" philosophy is bunk, because even WITH choice most of the 10 Commandments don't deserve death. Even if I give you that one anyway, the rest is horseshit because God kills children and babies and lets Lot live after offering his two virgin daughters up to be raped.Are you not getting it yet? This is a pretty horrible moral guideline. Try applying any of this, any at all, to modern society. If you kill someone based on their religion, or becasue they were gay, what would that make you? You would certainly be supported by the Bible...but would you think it would be right? Profanity has no bearing on my argument, and it's not against the forum guidelines, so I'll say what I like. And the idea that someone else can take your punishment for you is barbaric. It takes a sick fuck to kill a lamb because you stole an apple. It takes an even sicker fuck to advocate human sacrifice to atone for sins the sacrifice never committed. And it takes a crazy deity to sacrifice himself to himself when he's the one who made the rules in the first place. So why die in the first place? If he's omnipotent, if he made the rule requiring death, he could just forgive us anyway and be done with it. The whole atoning self-sacrifice idea is silly. Lies do not deserve death. Stealing does not deserve death. Adultery does not deserve death. Worshipping another god does not deserve death. Etc. Again, this is a barbaric and disgusting philosophy. The lamb doesnt deserve to die. Jesus, if he were truly sinless, didnt deserve to die. That makes his "sacrifice" murder, the one sin I could agree might deserve death. Besides that, he woke up 3 days later. That's not a sacrifice - that's a painful inconvenience in return for being worshipped for the next 2000 years. Small price. If it was a gift, you wouldn't need to be preaching, would you. He could jsut let us all in. I mean, he makes the rules, right? No,it's more like me, from the internet, telling you I want to give you $10,000,000 for your assistance transferring some funds from Nigeria. All I need is $100 (the Church wants your money too, after all) and a bunch of your time. Oh, and admit that the sky is purple with yellow polkadots. I'm just going to assume you have received one of those scam emails, and can make the connection. The Bible says God specifically told the Isrealites to go kill people. Specifically, look at Jericho. But the mother is still a key component in the "giving of life" thing. By your twisted, sick logic, she would still have the right to kill her child. For threatening us with Hell? For killing untold thousands in the Bible? For espousing barbaric, outdated philosophies like animal and human sacrifice? For forcing someone to disobey so that he can flex his killing muscle?!

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Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

This is not supported by the text, which explicitly states that God hardens Pharoah's heart so that he will not let the Israelites go, so that God "will be glorified." It's about as unambiguous as you can get if you read the words on the page, gen. It's only "confusing" if you're trying to bend and twist the text to justify a monstrous act. The task you've set yourself (justifying the Egyptian plagues culminating in the murder of the firstborn) is analogous to justifying the Holocaust. They are both inherently disgusting and horrifically immoral. I don't think your apologectics will resolve this conflict.

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Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

This relies entirely on the amoral premise that anyone who worships someone other than the Judeo-Chrstian God, or covets another person's belongings, or makes an idol, is worthy of death.It relies on the retarded and amoral premise that, somehow, all of humanity bears responsibility for what two individuals supposedly did 6000 years ago, and that this great "crime" is worthy of death (the crime, of course, being mere disobedience over eating a fruit).The ridiculous Jewish/Christian guilt complex starts with faulty premises and runs them straight to their absolutely immoral conclusion. By this same idiotic logic, a parent should have the right to kill a child if the child disobeys even once, and the child lives only through the parent's "love and grace." Of course it's God's fault. He's the one who makes the damned rules! He could just say "Well, I didn't make you perfectly, so I forgive you." Or he could have, you know, not made ridiculously immoral rules that all carry a death sentence!And when God specifically slaughters all of the firstborn of Egypt as "punishment" for something he forced Pharoah to do, or when he floods the entire world, or commands the Hebrews to kill every man, married woman and male child (but take the unwed girls to be forced brides for raping), it's God's fault. No questions asked. He loves you so much that he sentences you to death for doing what he created you to do (we are incapable of never coveting what others have)? He loves you so much that he sends you to Hell (which the Bible explicitly states is an eternal lake of fire, not just a permanent death) if you don't believe in his particular fairy tale?He sacrifices himself to himself to pay the price he set in the first place, but resurrects himself after 3 days so that any "sacrifice" is more of a temporary, painful inconvenience?You're making statements that aren't supported by scripture, gen. You're not reading any of the text critically to see what it actually says, and you're wearing blinders to prevent you from seeing the atrocities. When you can't deny it, you try to say "well, it's okay if God does it," as if there is ever a justification for specifically murdering children or taking the girls of a defeated tribe as forced brides (in other words, they're going to be raped).Here's a little story:There's a woman, somewhere in the Southern US, who has a beautiful 6-year-old girl. She's happily married to a wonderful husband, and they are very active in their Church. In fact, the doctors told her a long time ago that she'd never have a baby - but they prayed and prayed, and God blessed them with their wonderful baby girl! Everyone agreed it was a miracle, and they thank God for their daughter every day.One day, the mother hears a voice from heaven. The voice tells her that she needs to take her daughter, who she loves very much, and draw a bath. She is then to drown her daughter as a sacrifice to God.The mother is very sad, because she loves her daughter. But she heard the voice of God, and her daughter was, after all, God's gift - He has the right to take it away.She draws a bath, and calls to her daughter. When the little girl asks her mother why she is crying, she lies and says she has something in her eye, but that it's bath time.Then she dunks her little girl's head in the water, and holds it there while she kicks and struggles.But wait! Suddenly she hears God's voice again, and this time the voice tells her that she's proven her faithfulness, and that she should stop drowning her daughter! She's so relieved to not have to kill her baby, and she thanks God for His mercy.She pulls the little girl from the water. She's coughing, and sputtering. She's absolutely terrified, becasue her own mother just nearly killed her. She's wet herself. For the rest of her life, she'll be terrified of any amount of standing water. She'll bear the emotional scars of being nearly murdered by her mother for the rest of her life.We would, of course, say that this woman had a mental disorder. Maybe postpartum depression, though 6 years is a bit late for that. The motehr would go to jail as soon as anyone found out about what had happened, her Church would pray for her while condemning her actions......all the while forgetting that God likes to do this sort of thing, as shown in Genesis 22:

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22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
22:3 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and saddled his ass, and took two of his young men with him, and Isaac his son, and clave the wood for the burnt offering, and rose up, and went unto the place of which God had told him.
22:4 Then on the third day Abraham lifted up his eyes, and saw the place afar off.
22:5 And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.
22:6 And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.
22:7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.
22:9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.
22:10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. "And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son."
22:11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

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Think on that.

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Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

That's not condescending. That's accurate.

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Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

If man has no free will, that means that God created most people who have ever existed specifically for the purpose of throwing them in Hell for eternal torture. Predestination means that literally everything, from natural disasters to the Holocaust to individual atrocities are entirely God's fault, because he specifically caused it all to happen.It means your god is a petty, sadistic, evil fuck.

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Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

Exactly. It's the single most abhorrent ethical system ever devised, and Christians like our friend Gen spend innumerable hours trying to twist it into something that sounds better.

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Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

I think Gen expected to find a place to preach to a choir, like most Christian forums. This is a legitimate debate forum - we question beliefs, and some questions simply have unpleasant answers. I don't think Gen was ready or able to answer them, or even face them him/herself.

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Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.