The problems of big bang theory. What are they?

So? I'm not trying to prove that there is no god, at least not in this thread.On the other hand, there are creationists who insist that there must be a god, and who insist that it is silly not to believe in a god, and they try to use the exact arguments that you have been bringing up to "prove" that a god exists.At least if you recognize that the origins of the universe give no "proof" of the existence of any god, then you are a bit brighter than the average creationist.

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In many respects, the Bible was the world's first Wikipedia article. -- Doug Brown (quoted by Carlin Romano in The Chronicle Review)

You should know that we have guidelines about respect for the individual here Chiro!Calling someone only a "bit" brighter than the average creationist is over the line! You will have to do better in future.

TyberiusMAx Actually there are models using known physics that can explain the existence of the universe however the problem lies in that the last step of scientific investigation is quite presently beyond us.This is however a difference of many magnitudes of reasoning beyond the assertion of a God for whom you have neither evidence nor a coherent explanation for first prior to using this model to then explain the universe.Occams razor is not in your corner it would seem.Edited by sidelined, : No reason given.Edited by sidelined, : No reason given.

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First I would like to point out that you did not yet give me another possible answer besides the two.Second what do you mean they are unrelated...1. They both relate as answers(hypotheses) to how existence came to be
2. they both have not been proven yet so you cannot tell me that either one "CAN" be provenOr do you have the evidence. I highly doubt it because that is where science is at presently.One says the universe just exists
Another believes in a God outside of existenceBoth answers would require us to know what is outside of existence(which as of yet cannot be told)Who are you to say that one can be proven, as they both have not been proven and require the same variable.
You can not tell me which one has a better possibility of happening because neither one has a ratio of possiblity due to this variable.

the Answer ends withyou cannot prove there is a God but as a consequence cannot go against people who believe in a God
Because the people who believe in a God are using "Faith" which is not science so therefore why argue with it.Also since the universe does not yet have an answer for "just simply existing", you cannot prove there is no GodThere is simply no point in arguing until the latter point is proven.Until this happens why sit here arguing about the existence of a God instead of being out there trying to find the answer to the latter, which would then securly prove there is no God because there would be an answer as to how the universe "simply exists."Edited by TyberiusMax, : spellingEdited by TyberiusMax, : spelling

What does "outside of existence" even mean?

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“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
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I believe the Universe just exists and that there is a God outside of what we know as existence.The two are simply unrelated and as I pointed out several posts ago, both could be wrong, both could be right, one could be wrong and the other right, both could be partially wrong and partially right.There are many other possibilities such as the universe came into existence due to some yet unknown natural event, or that the universe always existed. LOL. I am simply someone who is capable of looking at history and possibilities. GOD by definition is super-natural, therefore we will never be able to test GOD's existence. Of course I can. We can simply look at history and we can see a continuing legacy of science coming up with models that explain what is seen.Inserting "God did it" though tells us nothing. It is worthless from an information perspective and simply a dead end. It is a valueless and irrelevant assertion.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Its what we are not.This is why neither can be proven, as of now.To say there is a god would require proof. But there is no proof because that would require a God who is "outside of existence"
This may sound funky due to english's limits but in our language we would say therefore "God does not exist". lol <(*o*)>But this is not only a problem with a God, but also with the belief that "the universe simply exists." There is no answer to this yet. This is because it would require the exact same thing as a God would. Knowledge of "outside of existence".If you read my last few posts with Chiroptera you would understand why the existence of the universe boils down to an idea Chiroptera even admitted to hold.Edited by TyberiusMax, : spellingEdited by TyberiusMax, : No reason given.Edited by TyberiusMax, : the above was for spelling errors

that it why I say there is no point in arguing the non-existence of a God. Neither can you argue there is a God
Do you know what faith is? It is believing without seeing
IT IS NOT SCIENTIFIC
You cannot argue with faith because it has no scientific reason
It has nothing to do with proving anything.Lolthose two possibilities are the same as the latter of the two I gave
You say there is some-unknown answer? then find it and come tell me
You say the universe could have always existed? I am unsure as to what you mean by this do you think it "simply exists," or do you believe it is infinite?if simply exists? that is the same as my last possibility lol
If infinite
I again quote Professor Paul Davies
"One evasive tactic is to claim that the universe didn't have a beginning, and that it has existed for all eternity. Unfortunately, there are many scientific reasons why this obvious idea is unsound. For starters, given an infinite amount of time, anything that can happen will already have happened, for if a physical process is likely to occur with a certain nonzero probability-however small-then given an infinite amount of time the process must occur, with probability one. By now, the universe should have reached some sort of final state in which all possible physical processes have run their course. Furthermore, you don't explain the existence of the universe by asserting that it has always existed. That is rather like saying that nobody wrote the Bible: it was. It was just copied from earlier versions."
lolGo find the answer jar
then the whole world will know the truth, but as of now there is an answer for neither. It does not matter if there will ever be answer for a God, but as of the present the same holds true to "the universe simply existing"

I have not argued the non-existence of God, only the absolute irrelevance of God to the question of the origin of the universe.However we can look at the history of science and see that it has been very effective in finding models that explain the universe as we see it.There is the high probability of us finding the natural origins of the universe. Inserting "God did it" though is simply a dead end, contentless, a worthless assertion that tells us nothing.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Ok I want you to read this one more time very closelyDo you know what faith is? It is believing without seeing
IT IS NOT SCIENTIFIC
You cannot argue with faith because it has no scientific reason
It has nothing to do with proving anything.HELLO?Go find the answer and forget about a God then
Why would you care what a faith thinks.
Why not find the high probability answer to why the universe "just exists" that proves once and for all there is no God.(Yes many people who believe in the God hypothesis do the exact same thing. theyargue about the existence of a God, when they actually cannot prove their God exists(Or really, is outside of our existence)So until then why care about arguing about the existence and non-existence of a God
You are doing the same thing they are, when you have not yet proven your hypothesis yet argue its validity.Edited by TyberiusMax, : spelling

I must now go play ping-pong, which I am terrible at sorry.It has been nice discussing this with you man CYA

LOLOnce again, I am NOT arguing the existence or non-existence of God. It is irrelevant, unimportant and unrelated to the origin of the universe.What I have said is that inserting "God did it" is valueless, tells us nothing and is a dead end.What will be of value is to continue exploring natural causes for the universe we see. Again, that is a simply silly assertion. Finding the 'high probability answer to why the universe "just exists"' has NOTHING to do with whether or not God exists.AbE:What you seem to be asserting is a God of the Gaps. The problem is that historically, we tend to fill in the gaps and eventually, there will be no place left for your little goddlet.There is another possibility. Look on what science teaches us as "How God did it." That way when we do understand the origins of the universe, and we will one day, you do not have to throw away the little God you created.GOD is bigger and more wonderful than the little picayune goddlet you seem to have created and worship.Edited by jar, : add God of the Gaps info.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Ok I'm backYou just typed:"Once again, I am NOT arguing the existence or non-existence of God. It is irrelevant, unimportant and unrelated to the origin of the universe."How can you say you are not when right after that you go right back to saying:"Again, that is a simply silly assertion. Finding the 'high probability answer to why the universe "just exists"' has NOTHING to do with whether or not God exists.I would like you to know I am a Believer in God, a personal God believer, and a born again christian. This is my FAITH, THIS FAITH is
"inserting "God did it""
I have no answer to my God's "existence" and I accept that I do not know and will never know all about him because I believe he is infinite.
Once again this goes against all laws we know ande is impossible.
That is why this is my FAITH.YOU CANNOT ARGUE AGAINST THIS, IT IS MY FAITH
you cannot say it is wrong because it has not been proven or disproven"What will be of value is to continue exploring natural causes for the universe we see."
Ok, do this. when you find the answer, come tell me"There is another possibility. Look on what science teaches us as "How God did it." That way when we do understand the origins of the universe, and we will one day, you do not have to throw away the little God you created."What does this mean? Do you believe there is a God?
What does it mean to find the natural "causes" for the universe but also believe there is a God. Why would their be a need for a God if there was a natural cause?===================
Off topic, I must go to sleep now, That ping-pong wore me out. lolEdited by TyberiusMax, : No reason given.Edited by TyberiusMax, : Spelling ---- the ^ was also spelling

This is the science section of the forum. Faith alone is not admissible as evidence here.Besides, you haven't really added anything to debate about. You have faith in God? Fine.I have faith in the flying spaghetti monster. He created the entire universe last Thursday, with the appearance of age including all of you memories, beginning with a midget on a hill.You can't argue with it because it can't be proven or disproven.Do you see how utterly retarded that "logic" is? If something is unfalsifiable, that is, it is compeltely untestable and we cannot know whether it exists or not, it clearly has no bearing on reality. It must be an extraneous entity, and a Universe with the entity must be identical to a universe without it.1+1=2.
1+1+x=2.In this example, x=0. It's an extraneous term. Whether the variable is there or not, it is completely irrelevant to the terms we are certain about, so there is no reason to state it.If God is completely untestable and unfalsifiable, if the Universal origin is identical with or without him, then there is no reason to assume God exists, for the exact same reason you do not believe in fairies or invisible unicorns or trolls or my flying spaghetti monster.If
(the universe as we observe it) = reality
and
(the universe as we observe it + God) = reality
then
God = 0.

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Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.