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Author Topic:   Religion and Chain Letters
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5940 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 1 of 19 (429771)
10-21-2007 5:52 PM


There are various aspects to religion - some positive and many negative. The aspect that I wish to discuss here is the common doctrine or teaching that can be paraphrased as:
quote:
Faith or belief in [fill in the blank] is essential to your personal salvation and eternal bliss; failure of faith will result in your personal eternal punishment in the fiery pit of hell
This feature which is common in several major religions and denominations has the same psychological underpinnings of a chain letter or email. Perhaps this is why many chain letters incorporate religious ideas and references to enhance credibility and acceptance.
The intention of a chain letter is to create some psychological distress through a threat and to entice with potential reward, as a means to motivate the recipient to propagate the letter or idea. The net effect is negative, wasteful and harmful.
The question for discussion: Is this aspect of religion equivalent to a chain letter?
Edited by iceage, : No reason given.
Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Jon, posted 10-22-2007 1:41 AM iceage has replied
 Message 4 by Larni, posted 10-22-2007 5:35 AM iceage has replied
 Message 5 by pelican, posted 10-22-2007 7:40 AM iceage has not replied
 Message 8 by arachnophilia, posted 10-26-2007 1:18 AM iceage has not replied
 Message 11 by jar, posted 10-26-2007 10:20 AM iceage has not replied

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5940 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 6 of 19 (430487)
10-25-2007 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Jon
10-22-2007 1:41 AM


Jon writes:
Are you asking whether or not if in the end religion is "negative, wasteful and harmful"?
Not quite...
I just realized that Christianity maybe the original, most successful and longest running chain letter in history.
The psychology of the central core doctrine of Christianity is identical to that of a chain letter. Both promise good things if have faith and believe in things without seeing or other confirmation of the senses; and threatens bad things if you don't.
It is a psychology designed to manipulate the subject to get them to help propagate the message. The psychology preys on fear, the human condition and uncertainty.
One has to ask why would God deem believing without seeing as so vitally important?
It is obvious why a mind virus requires such blind faith, but God? It just does not make sense why a being who obviously deals with the material world (creation, flood, stopping sun, miracles, etc) would withhold any real tangible evidence of God existence.
Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Jon, posted 10-22-2007 1:41 AM Jon has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Taz, posted 10-26-2007 12:38 PM iceage has replied

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5940 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 7 of 19 (430490)
10-25-2007 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Larni
10-22-2007 5:35 AM


Pascal's Wager
Larni writes:
I can see what you mean with this but I think you may be forgetting that (I hope) people teaching their kids their religions do it because they honestly think it is the best thing to do. I don't think this is the intent of chain letters.
That said, stripping away the notion of intent and they are both pretty similar in the way they motivate people to transmit themselves.
Some people also comply and send chain letters because they think they are giving others the chance at blessings.
However you are right, most comply to chain letters because of the manipulation.
Actually thinking about this a little further, most comply to chain letters using the same reasoning for religious faith - Pascal's Wager!
Many users here have provided the essence of Pascal's Wager in defense of there faith such as:
quote:
"If I am right I win big but if you are right I lose nothing"
This is often the same justification that is used when people comply to a chain letter - oh well I am not out much and just maybe it works.
This fact that the human response to the sales pitch is often similar strengthens the comparison between to two.
Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Larni, posted 10-22-2007 5:35 AM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Larni, posted 10-26-2007 5:11 AM iceage has not replied

  
iceage 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5940 days)
Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 14 of 19 (430658)
10-26-2007 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Taz
10-26-2007 12:38 PM


Right Mix of Ingredients
iceage writes:
I just realized that Christianity maybe the original, most successful and longest running chain letter in history.
Taz writes:
I don't think so. Let's not forget that the Jewish religion has been around far longer than christianity.
Not quite. Ancient Judaism did not have that same alluring mix of ingredients. The reward/risk feature was not well defined and submission was not easy to implement.
Christianity however hit upon just the right mix of ingredients, which maybe why it is so successful. That is..
  • A promise of great blessings
  • A threat of bad luck and/or damnation
  • Small price to pay for submission (ie faith in the unseeable)
  • Built-in request to replicate the message.
  • These are the exact same ingredients as a chain letter.
    I recently came to this conclusion when the user ICANT, if you remember him, would often exclaim "All you have to do is believe on Jesus to be saved and excuse yourself from hell". And he also frequently used Pascal's wager as a defense which i noticed that a variation of Pascal's wager is often used by people when they replicate a chain letter.
    I was annoyed and irritated by this constant refrain. Suddenly I realized that the annoyance that I experienced was the same annoyance that I experience when I receive a chain letter. With such a promise and dire threat one has to take some time and energy to consider such a proposal (at least at first when encountering the proposal). But then I realized that they both work on the same psychological principle and prey upon fear, the human condition and the residual superstition that is in each of us to some measure.
    I wish some Christian or theist would point out where I am wrong here.
    Edited by iceage, : No reason given.
    Edited by iceage, : No reason given.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 13 by Taz, posted 10-26-2007 12:38 PM Taz has not replied

      
    iceage 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 5940 days)
    Posts: 1024
    From: Pacific Northwest
    Joined: 09-08-2003


    Message 18 of 19 (435273)
    11-20-2007 5:52 AM


    Chain Letter Nullification Certificate
    I came across this Chain Letter Nullification Certificate.
    A Printable Certificate for Breaking Chain Letters – DSri Seah
    I thought the this quote was apropos even in this context....
    quote:
    There are times when the forces of Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt conspire to coerce Good People to aid the propogation of Certain Letters of Ambiguous Benefit or Misfortune. Such Letters are conceived to Frighten people into serving the Ego of a Master Jerk. We can not, as free men and women, allow such Threats to bound our Happiness.
    By signing and dating this certificate, you declare that you are a Creator of Positive Energies. Together, we break the Tyranny of the Chain. We declare that we are defined by our Actions, not our Fears.

      
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