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Author Topic:   On Trying a President.
Phat
Member
Posts: 18299
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 46 of 51 (430896)
10-28-2007 6:05 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by jar
10-27-2007 9:51 PM


Re: Think things through.
Jar writes:
What you advocate is that power is the determining factor as opposed to law.
Is that really your position?
Well...... No, I guess not. I just get tired of my country getting weaker is all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by jar, posted 10-27-2007 9:51 PM jar has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 47 of 51 (430902)
10-28-2007 7:30 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Buzsaw
10-26-2007 9:27 PM


Buzsaw writes:
quote:
The invation was a multi-nation invasion.
No, not really. It was the US with a small amount of assistance from the UK and a few one-offs. It was also done in contradiction to the UN declarations as well as in defiance of the request of the weapons inspectors who were begging for more time.
quote:
Iraq defied the world body deband of inspections etc.
No, not really. While Hussein did kick the inspectors out, he let them back in. In fact, on the very day that Bush declared war on Iraq, the inspectors were destroying a set of missiles that violated the standard set by having too large of a range. Contrary to your claims, the weapons inspectors were in Iraq and doing their jobs. The US had to evacuate them in order to start their attack.
quote:
Iraq funded terrorist suicide bombers.
Incorrect. Many nations fund suicide bombers, but Iraq wasn't one of them. Instead, we should have invaded Saudi Arabia. After all, 15 of the 19 hijackers came from there. Not a single one was Iraqi.
quote:
The US lost two of the world's tallest buildings, part of the pentagon, 4 airliners and occupants, thousands of other lives and a crippled economy.
None of which had anything to do with Iraq. The equivalent is that when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, the United States should have invaded Norway. After all, Norway was one of the primary sites to produce heavy water, a component for nuclear weapons and since the US lost a large part of its Pacific fleet, a great loss of life, and was a blow to the economy, obviously Norway was the right choice.
That said, let's go to the actual topic of this thread:
The 25th Amendment concerns presidential succession:
Amendment 25, Section 4: Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.
So the President being out of the country and in jail in and of itself is not enough. The rest of the government needs to decide that he cannot do his job from where he is.
Now, there are extradition treaties but members of government are often given wide leeway. A case could be made that Mugabe of Zimbabwe should be arrested and brought before the ICC or Hague, and indeed there is a protestor in England who routinely tries to take him under citizen's arrest and/or convince the UK government to arrest him when he visits, but the British authorities refuse to take up his cause.
If the countries of the world truly think that the US President were that bad, I doubt they would restrict themselves to simple legal maneuvering. Even if they did, I can guarantee you that the expectation would be that there would need to be a US trial to determine if the extradition is warranted and will be carried out. I have a hard time thinking it would ever happen that a US court would send the President to stand trial in another country without being forced to at the end of a gun.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Buzsaw, posted 10-26-2007 9:27 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Lithodid-Man
Member (Idle past 2952 days)
Posts: 504
From: Juneau, Alaska, USA
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 48 of 51 (430904)
10-28-2007 7:59 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Buzsaw
10-27-2007 9:08 PM


Re: Implication
Buz writes:
1. Whether the conditions involved terrorism relative to the war on terror.
2. Whether the allied nations involved were supportive to the war on terror.
For several years during the late 1980's and early 1990's I worked as a research assistant in Central America. During that time I became close to many college students from Nicaragua. When working with these students I learned that the 'freedom fighters' the US was supporting were actually generals from the Samoza government. If you know any history the two Samozas (father and son) led some of the worst human rights atrocities in modern times.
SO George Herbert Walker Bush is today wanted in Nicaragua. He has a standing warrant for crimes against humanity. Because of his work to reimpose the Samoza government in Nicaragua (called Contras in US spin). I assume he will never go back. But in some reality lets say his plane is forced to land In Nicaragua. What would we do? He is arrested and forced to stand trial. What would the US do? The crimes are documented and very real. Would we allow an ex-president such a fate?

"I have seen so far because I have stood on the bloated corpses of my competitors" - Dr Burgess Bowder

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Buzsaw, posted 10-27-2007 9:08 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2191 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 49 of 51 (430905)
10-28-2007 8:09 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Phat
10-27-2007 9:46 PM


Re: So might makes right?
quote:
We dont get any special privilege in the U.N. Little Timbuktu gets as much justice as we do. Thats why we usually don't submit to the U.N.
Might indeed does make right....Given the audacity of an enemy to capture our leader. They soon will learn the Golden Rule: He Who Has The Gold Makes The Rules!
Phat, that's a pretty disgusting attitude.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Phat, posted 10-27-2007 9:46 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Rrhain, posted 10-28-2007 6:18 PM nator has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 50 of 51 (430985)
10-28-2007 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by nator
10-28-2007 8:09 AM


Re: So might makes right?
nator responds to Phat:
quote:
quote:
We dont get any special privilege in the U.N. Little Timbuktu gets as much justice as we do. Thats why we usually don't submit to the U.N.
Might indeed does make right....Given the audacity of an enemy to capture our leader. They soon will learn the Golden Rule: He Who Has The Gold Makes The Rules!
Phat, that's a pretty disgusting attitude.
I'd agree, but let's be honest: He's right. If Bush, Sr. were to find himself in Nicaragua, under arrest for what their government has charged him with, does anybody seriously think the US wouldn't start rattling its sabers, threatening a military action? Especially if he were facing a sentence of death?
It isn't nice, but it is true.

Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by nator, posted 10-28-2007 8:09 AM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by jar, posted 10-28-2007 6:26 PM Rrhain has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 51 of 51 (430986)
10-28-2007 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Rrhain
10-28-2007 6:18 PM


Re: So might makes right?
Is it also short sighted. Already there are several nations that the US cannot really threaten either militarily or economically. As that reality increases, we will increasingly be in a position where saber rattling simply won't work.
For our own benefit, should we take a lead in promoting some international rule of law?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Rrhain, posted 10-28-2007 6:18 PM Rrhain has not replied

  
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