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Author Topic:   Christmas Star Explained
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 209 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 271 of 278 (430855)
10-27-2007 10:46 PM
Reply to: Message 270 by simple
10-27-2007 9:50 PM


no, for something to be "really going on" it has to actually be there in the text, not just something that has been read into it that was not the intentions of the author. you go looking for the devil, and you will find him. everywhere. but it's just your paranoid self-delusion.

The author was God, and His spirit, so to perceive the intentions the spirit is required. Get over it.

both your premise and your conclusion are faulty. a god who writes in cryptic tomes such that only the select few, or this case, the select one can understand it, is a god of lies. you are painting god to be a liar, someone who says one thing but means another.

The wheels are real. The throne is real. The guiding the wise men was real. The star prophesy was real. The fact that you want to neuter the spiritual from the bible only neuters you potential to actually understand it. That is plainly brought out in the bible, I even posted some verses on it.

i do not want to neuter anything from the bible, and i am quite happy to acknowledge the spiritual importance of it. what i want to "neuter" is the sort of lunacy that you are trying to spread.

The messiah was promised from the beginning, long before there were kings in Israel, or an Israel.

again, you are essentially saying that god's presence among the israelites (at times like the exodus) was "physical only." who is neutering the spiritual content of the bible now? you are. why do you suppose that people who are literally following god through the barren wilderness, relying on him for their very daily bread, would be lacking anything spiritually from god?

You interpret the sceptre as meaning kings, that is your problem, and leaves you with broken prophesy, a useless bible, and a God missing in action.

perhaps you see the bible that way. that is not my issue. that is yours. you have continually denigrated the bible in this discussion. advocating its use as toilet paper and fire kindling. the rest of us, who have read the bible, appreciate it a little more. even if it were nothing more than lies, it would be an incredible historical work filled with philosophical arguments and beautiful poetry. that you cannot see this in the bible speaks volumes of your mindset. i am debating you because of your mistreatment of a volume of texts that i respect. you seem to have no respect for it, or you would listen to what it says instead of the voices in your head.

and the fact of the matter, god did abandon the children of judah for a time. he says so himself. you will just have to take that issue up with the bible itself, where god describes the coming exile and destruction of the temple. you will have to take that issue up with lamentations, mourning the exile. you will have to take that up with king david, who wrote "my god, my god, why have you forsaken me?" you will have to take that up with your saviour who quoted david's words as he died on the cross.

Complete nonsense and doctrine. Man needed a savior since the fall. Israel was one step on the way there, and it's silly little pip squeak kings, most of whom seemed to be desperately wicked, and idolaters anyhow, had diddley much to do with it. If you miss God's office, you miss the whole thing.

there whole books devoted to this kings. there are books whose authorship is attributed to this kings -- in your view, god spoke through these people. your view is utterly disrespectful of the entirety of the bible.

No, it is a word that symbolizes God's authority, and He is the only one in the bible that ever had a sceptre.

this demonstrably untrue. i quoted in a previous post references to the kings of egypt, babylon, and persia all wielding sceptres as symbols of their power. but you evidently have such a short memory that i will have to post them again.

quote:
Est 8:4 Then the king held out the golden sceptre toward Esther. So Esther arose, and stood before the king,

quote:
Zec 10:11 And he shall pass through the sea with affliction, and shall smite the waves in the sea, and all the deeps of the river shall dry up: and the pride of Assyria shall be brought down, and the sceptre of Egypt shall depart away.

quote:
Isa 14:5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, [and] the sceptre of the rulers.

it is a symbol of earthly power, and applied to god when god is being portrayed as king.

His sceptre did remain till after Shiloh came.

again, god's blessing on israel and judah was anything but constant. read the bible and it will tell you so.

The Father stuck around till Jesus took over the job.

i'm sorry, what? jesus took over god's job?

You think it only took them a day to get to the palace now?? Or are you suggesting they were ecstatic every night for a year and some months, or whatever it took to get there???

no, they were happy it did not disappear.

Can you demonstrate the normal path of a star leading a pizza delivery boy to your house?? Call up, and instead of an address just say 'follow that star'. Yeah right. Get a grip.

you're still not getting it. these weren't pizza delivery boys. they were astrologers. why is this so hard to understand? astrologers get information from stars.

Of course they slow motion appear to move across the sky. Now, order that pizza, and show us the demo. Remember, I am even allowing you to tell then the city you are in. Work on that.

your whole attitude in this thread from the very beginning has been simply ridiculous. do you not understand the word "miracle?"

If it was my best friend, and, in Mary's case, almost like a husband, I think people would recognize them. Yes.

"almost like a husband" is completely undocumented, da vinci code conspiracy theory quality stuff. it's possible, but there is very little in the text that would make us actually think that. and she did recognize him, very quickly, just not at first.

persia was the only country that had any reason to even care about israel, because they had (past tense) a jewish queen. esther had been dead for about 400 years at this point.

That is nonsense. Many countries knew of Israel.

you're still not reading. just because today we all view the world in a judeo-christian-centric fashion doesn't mean that everyone always did. israel is part of our cultural tradition -- but in the first century AD it wasn't part of anyone's tradition.

except persia. do you understand this now? "knowing of" and "caring about" are two very different things. only persia would have cared.

But it doesn't say countries sent them. Why make stuff up, and read things into it that aren't there???? Then you accuse others of a comprehension problem, because they never tuned in to your little fantasy trip??

yes, that magi (persian astrologers) were from persia is making stuff up. but UFOs, that's obvious! come on.

ok, let's try this again. what country do levites come from?

Easy, the US, Britain, Jordan, Argentina, Canada, and etc. Why?? Just like Iranians! They are all over. Traveling is a wonderful thing.

*sigh*

are you really this obtuse? perhaps i should have stipulated "in the ancient world." today people are very cosmopolitan, and in this country in particular, people come from all over and still retain their cultural identity. but in the ancient world, cultural identity and national identity were much more closely linked. levites were jewish priests -- they came from either judah, or israel. magi were persian priests -- they came from persia.

and besides, "iranian" means "from iran."

try deuteronomy 13. because, you see, romans chapter 8 is not talking about what you are saying. you are using it (and other quotemined "prooftexts") as an excuse to claim that those who do not agree with your ludicrous mishandling of the bible are outsiders, fooled by god. you turn god into a liar, a devil. the bible says to stone people like you.

Readers, just listen to this guy weird out. Without the spiritual, as the bible says, you just can't get it. Got it??

you're talking about UFOs. don't forget that. you're also talking about spiritualistic nonsense that runs contrary to what the word of god says. the bible says to stone you, as you are a false prophet advocating that we follow other gods.

yes, sacrifices got on just fine without the ark. don't believe me? consult your own ludicrous story. the second temple stood until about 70 AD, when the romans demolished it. sacrifices went for another 40 years after jesus was executed. if they can't do sacrifices without the ark, it must have still been there. take your pick, at least one of your points has to be wrong.

Sure one could. Just sew up the veil, and pretend it is business as usual! The show must go on. After all, not like anyone was going in there to check!!!!

in other words, you admit that you're wrong. you can perform sacrifices without the ark of the covenant, which means that it didn't have to be there in the first place.

That is why, in my opinion, God sent the Romans to stop that show,

god didn't send the romans. they were already there. the romans controlled judea before jesus was born. didn't you read any of the gospels? herod was a roman-installed king. pontious pilate was a roman governor. the messiah people were expecting was the one that would lead the rebellion against the romans, and many supposed messiahs of the age did or rather tried to. in fact, when things actually came to a head, in 70 ad, and the rebellion actually happened, the jews lost. the temple was destroyed by the romans as punishment, and rome began calling the area "philistia" (or "palestine") to add insult to injury. that title remained in effect until 1948, when the modern state of israel was founded.

seriously, learn your history. some of this is even in the bible.

and will send the Antichrist to stop the sacrifices when they shortly start up again!!!!

under deuteronomical law, sacrifices can only be performed at the temple. which does not exist. the person who rebuilds the temple will be the messiah, not the anti-christ, and animal sacrifices will no longer be required.

basically, you just mixed up "the second coming of christ" with "the antichrist." you should really work on that, figure out which side you're on. because the "jews are evil" side just makes you look bad.

curiously, only the bible records any of this.

My ppoint, exactly, if it was a star in the sense of a distant sun, others would have seen it. Thanks for that.

er, no, astrologers would have seen it. less astrologically inclined people wouldn't. people who didn't care about israel or had different astrology wouldn't have cared about the israel connection. the hindus actually kept amazingly accurate stellar records around that time, and noted a number of interesting events in the sky.

equally curious is that only one gospel records it. luke does not.

it sure makes him smaller than a god who moves stars.

Not if you think about it. Not only is He all in all, and the Great Spirit that is in everything, and set the stars in the heavens, He also does it from a starship, at least sometimes. And He is soon coming right here forever to land and live, and base His trips from!! Evermore.

i am not sure why you think anyone would see your point as anything other than pure and unadulterated lunacy. even ray martinez called you a crackpot. do you have any appreciation for what that means on the internet? it's like peter popoff calling you a fraud.


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by simple, posted 10-27-2007 9:50 PM simple has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by simple, posted 10-28-2007 12:40 AM arachnophilia has responded

  
Vacate
Member (Idle past 2832 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 10-01-2006


Message 272 of 278 (430861)
10-27-2007 11:30 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by simple
10-27-2007 9:16 PM


Slime
Oh, I got how you admitted yo had poor choice, and also made that stated belief up. Relax.

Yet you continue to misrepresent me by insisting that it was a stated belief, faith, or religion. Glad you got it finally. Still bringing it up though I see.

Not at all, you can't pull one over on me. I was onto you soon as you made the silly claims. I knew you were not telling the truth, if it makes you feel any better.

WOW! You mean each and every time I told you it was a work of fiction I hadn't made you think otherwise somehow? Interesting that my stating this repeatedly each and every time you feigned ignorance was actually a clever ploy on my part to pull one over on you. *almost had you there didn't I? wink wink*

No, it does not make me feel any better. Now you finally admit that you had known this was not my stated belief and your repeated misrepresentation was in fact a lie about your lack of understanding in addition to your misrepresentation.

From the quality of your arguments, or lack therof, that is a compliment.

Good. Then I will be glad to repeat it - I will say that I personally find you to be a horrid example of what christanity is supposed to stand for.

OK, so I think we all are starting to get it here. You insist obsessively in hiding your 'true' beliefs. You presented some beliefs, but these were false, by your own admission. You haven't been able to grasp that you fooled no one, but are so convinced you had, you think others have a 'comprehension problem'. OK.

No you aren't starting to get it. I did not present "some beliefs that were false" - you know that but choose to continue to lie about it. You still don't grasp that anyone can look back at this thread and see that there is not a single post where I tried to fool anyone. You still lie about my position regardless of how many times I instist that you stop. I cannot believe that your insistance on this has not gotten you a suspension. I don't think others have a comprehention problem, I just think your an idiot who cannot form a logical debate and has to resort to lies to "hammer something into the other court".

I am done. You win. I will not take part in this debate any longer. All attempts to make my point have been avoided by your twisting of your story, denying claims you have made, and outright lies about my position. Until I get a retraction and apology from you about this repeated slander I am done. Take your victory, I hope you enjoy it.

Edited by Vacate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by simple, posted 10-27-2007 9:16 PM simple has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by arachnophilia, posted 10-27-2007 11:59 PM Vacate has not yet responded

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 209 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 273 of 278 (430865)
10-27-2007 11:59 PM
Reply to: Message 272 by Vacate
10-27-2007 11:30 PM


Re: Slime
I am done. You win. I will not take part in this debate any longer. All attempts to make my point have been avoided by your twisting of your story, denying claims you have made, and outright lies about my position. Until I get a retraction and apology from you about this repeated slander I am done. Take your victory, I hope you enjoy it.

don't let him get to you too much. i don't think he's doing it on purpose.


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Vacate, posted 10-27-2007 11:30 PM Vacate has not yet responded

  
simple 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 274 of 278 (430870)
10-28-2007 12:40 AM
Reply to: Message 271 by arachnophilia
10-27-2007 10:46 PM


Ray Scared??
both your premise and your conclusion are faulty. a god who writes in cryptic tomes such that only the select few, or this case, the select one can understand it, is a god of lies. you are painting god to be a liar, someone who says one thing but means another.

Complete nonsense, of course. In the extreme. He gave us the choice to select Him. And His spirit, as a consequence. He made it crystal clear, and simple, in the bible that we could understand, but we NEED his spirit, and help.
It is not God lying, by any natural only minded stretch of the imagination, when He says we need, repeat need, repeat need, repeat need, repeat need, emphasis on need, repeat need to have His spirit, to comprehend. That is something you need to get a handle on pronto. Before you can, repeat can proceed any further. That is how it is. Need I repeat myself here????

i do not want to neuter anything from the bible, and i am quite happy to acknowledge the spiritual importance of it. what i want to "neuter" is the sort of lunacy that you are trying to spread.

So, the spiritual importance of it, means what??? Does it mean that it was written by a spirit, and needs a spirit to unlock it's mysteries?? Or do you use 'spiritual' as some mentally conjured, 'in the head only', bible is a pack of nonsense' way?? Do tell.

again, you are essentially saying that god's presence among the israelites (at times like the exodus) was "physical only." who is neutering the spiritual content of the bible now? you are. why do you suppose that people who are literally following god through the barren wilderness, relying on him for their very daily bread, would be lacking anything spiritually from god?

That is the anti thesis of what I ever suggested. The murmuring Jews in the desert were lacking plenty, obviously. Otherwise some of them would have made it to the promised land! Focus. If they had not belly ached about the manna, and worshiped golden calves, while the cat, Moses, was away, and etc... maybe you could say they had 'arrived' spiritually. No. They were a mess.

the rest of us, who have read the bible, appreciate it a little more. even if it were nothing more than lies, it would be an incredible historical work filled with philosophical arguments and beautiful poetry

That is as shallow a take on the word of Gos as could be imagined. Poetry, and 'philosophical arguments', that claim a messiah was coming, and came, and that the book was inspired of God, etc would be the most heinous, diabolical hoax ever foisted on mankind.

and the fact of the matter, god did abandon the children of judah for a time. he says so himself.

Not His office over them. He did hide His face a few times, and allow them to reap the hell they sowed, but He still had His plan, messiah, and office very very, repeat very much intact. This is evidenced by the sacrifice of His son. God had to let Jesus taste what our death was like, the separation for a small moment, from the Father. Perhaps the Father almost hoped that Jesus , His son, would raise His little pinky, call in the angel air strike, and end man's rule?? Instead, He had to forsake Jesus, apparently, for a moment. All for you. And you come up with this sort of tripe???

there whole books devoted to this kings. there are books whose authorship is attributed to this kings -- in your view, god spoke through these people. your view is utterly disrespectful of the entirety of the bible.

On the contrary, it puts man in his place.

this demonstrably untrue. i quoted in a previous post references to the kings of egypt, babylon, and persia all wielding sceptres as symbols of their power. but you evidently have such a short memory that i will have to post them again.

quote:Est 8:4 Then the king held out the golden sceptre toward Esther. So Esther arose, and stood before the king,

Now, fill us in, was that a king of ISRAEL, that held that sceptre???? You ought to hang your head in shame.

Zec 10:11 And he shall pass through the sea with affliction, and shall smite the waves in the sea, and all the deeps of the river shall dry up: and the pride of Assyria shall be brought down, and the sceptre of Egypt shall depart away.
Worldly kings have offices as well. So???? The office over Judah was...class...Who????

again, god's blessing on israel and judah was anything but constant. read the bible and it will tell you so.

I never said blessing, THAT depends on OBEDIENCE!!! I said office, rule. Get serious.

i'm sorry, what? jesus took over god's job?
In the world of men, of course!!! Jesus IS the way, the truth, and the light, NO man cometh unto the Father, but by Him. Jesus is the only Christmas star around you can follow now.

no, they were happy it did not disappear.

You make it sound like they were a bunch of silly morons, that jumped up and down, and got a mench in the bible itself, every time a new evening came round. Ridiculous.

you're still not getting it. these weren't pizza delivery boys. they were astrologers. why is this so hard to understand? astrologers get information from stars.

OOHH. I see. So, we can tweak the test, and demo, here, to make it real easy for you. Call up some astrology club, and ask them to deliver a telescope to your door. Tell them to follow a star!!! You really must be kidding. That is patently absurd. Get a grip, man.

"almost like a husband" is completely undocumented, da vinci code conspiracy theory quality stuff. it's possible, but there is very little in the text that would make us actually think that. and she did recognize him, very quickly, just not at first.

I was referring to how we Christians are all married to Jesus. I won't get into the good stuff on a non Christian public forum!!

you're still not reading. just because today we all view the world in a judeo-christian-centric fashion doesn't mean that everyone always did. israel is part of our cultural tradition -- but in the first century AD it wasn't part of anyone's tradition.

So, why pretend that countries sent folks there????? Try and focus.

except persia. do you understand this now? "knowing of" and "caring about" are two very different things. only persia would have cared.
Woulda shoulda coulda. Maybe, smaybe, baby. This is your pretend case support????

yes, that magi (persian astrologers) were from persia is making stuff up. but UFOs, that's obvious! come on.

God's wheels are bible basics. Claiming that all the wise men were living in Iran, regardless of where they were born is dreamland.

are you really this obtuse? perhaps i should have stipulated "in the ancient world." today people are very cosmopolitan, and in this country in particular, people come from all over and still retain their cultural identity. but in the ancient world, cultural identity and national identity were much more closely linked. levites were jewish priests -- they came from either judah, or israel. magi were persian priests -- they came from persia.

and besides, "iranian" means "from iran."

If these Magi never traveled, why were they in Jerusalem??? Are you suggesting that ALL who used the silk road, or ships always came back to their countries every time?? If not, then, assuming the Magi are as you think, how is it they were hogtied to Iran?? Why not have one in China, or India?? They see a star, bing and a bang and a boom, they prepare to go somewhere more exciting. So??

you're talking about UFOs. don't forget that. you're also talking about spiritualistic nonsense that runs contrary to what the word of god says. the bible says to stone you, as you are a false prophet advocating that we follow other gods.

Other Gods like the messiah??? Like the Ancient of Days?? Your violent fantasies are noted.

god didn't send the romans. they were already there. the romans controlled judea before jesus was born. didn't you read any of the gospels? herod was a roman-installed king. pontious pilate was a roman governor. the messiah people were expecting was the one that would lead the rebellion against the romans, and many supposed messiahs of the age did or rather tried to. in fact, when things actually came to a head, in 70 ad, and the rebellion actually happened, the jews lost. the temple was destroyed by the romans as punishment, and rome began calling the area "philistia" (or "palestine") to add insult to injury. that title remained in effect until 1948, when the modern state of israel was founded.

seriously, learn your history. some of this is even in the bible.

You seriously suggest here, that the legions sent to punish the rebellious Jews, were all from Israel?? Absurd.

under deuteronomical law, sacrifices can only be performed at the temple. which does not exist. the person who rebuilds the temple will be the messiah, not the anti-christ, and animal sacrifices will no longer be required.

We shall see. I can tell you one thing, Jesus ain't building no temple in old Jerusalem. All you are saying, is that many Jews will embrace the AntiChrist as the messiah!!!! This is news????

er, no, astrologers would have seen it. less astrologically inclined people wouldn't. people who didn't care about israel or had different astrology wouldn't have cared about the israel connection. the hindus actually kept amazingly accurate stellar records around that time, and noted a number of interesting events in the sky.

equally curious is that only one gospel records it. luke does not.

You seem to claim here that the Hindus recorded the Christmas star. Prove it. As for why Luke got the scoop, and was in the loop, God gives us all some light. If we place 4 people together, we will see a particular light in each person's testimony. Not all men have to have access to every point. How drool.

i am not sure why you think anyone would see your point as anything other than pure and unadulterated lunacy. even ray martinez called you a crackpot. do you have any appreciation for what that means on the internet? it's like peter popoff calling you a fraud.

Never heard of the silly guy. If he wants my notice, he can say it himself, and see how far he gets.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 271 by arachnophilia, posted 10-27-2007 10:46 PM arachnophilia has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 275 by arachnophilia, posted 10-28-2007 2:09 AM simple has responded

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 209 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 275 of 278 (430880)
10-28-2007 2:09 AM
Reply to: Message 274 by simple
10-28-2007 12:40 AM


let's stone simple.
both your premise and your conclusion are faulty. a god who writes in cryptic tomes such that only the select few, or this case, the select one can understand it, is a god of lies. you are painting god to be a liar, someone who says one thing but means another.

Complete nonsense, of course. In the extreme. He gave us the choice to select Him. And His spirit, as a consequence. He made it crystal clear, and simple, in the bible that we could understand, but we NEED his spirit, and help.

then why doesn't anyone else who believes in him see this nonsense you are coming up with? you are just using this an excuse to perpetuate your imaginative misinterpretations. it's not god, or the holy spirit, it's you, simple. it's all you -- and for you to bring up this sort of crap about it being god implies that nobody else besides you has the spirit of god. you are claiming to be a prophet, and you are a false one. the bible says to stone you.

and yes, ray martinez uses the same excuse for his nonsense, too. and even he thought you were silly for talking about god's spaceship.

It is not God lying,

no. it isn't. it is you making god out to be a liar, be claiming he wrote one thing, but meant another. the bible says to stone you.

by any natural only minded stretch of the imagination, when He says we need, repeat need, repeat need, repeat need, repeat need, emphasis on need, repeat need to have His spirit, to comprehend.

god gave us all brains. i'm sorry that you do not feel the need to actually use yours. what the bible says of one needing faith to understand is not a matter of coded messages. it's a matter of the bible speaking of many spiritual truths, philosophical matters, that one might not easily understand without a point of reference. it is not a blank check to interpret any passage you like as being about UFOs and claim it as divine inspiration on your part. you are claiming to be a prophet, and you are false. the bible says to stone you.

That is something you need to get a handle on pronto. Before you can, repeat can proceed any further. That is how it is. Need I repeat myself here????

that is all you have ever done. like a heathen, who thinks his prayers will be heard for his much speaking.

So, the spiritual importance of it, means what??? Does it mean that it was written by a spirit, and needs a spirit to unlock it's mysteries?? Or do you use 'spiritual' as some mentally conjured, 'in the head only', bible is a pack of nonsense' way?? Do tell.

if by "mentally conjured, in the head only, bible is a pack of nonsense" way you mean like you have been doing for this entire thread, no. i do not treat the bible that way. you do. the bible is written in rather black and white hebrew and greek. depending on your translation, it's in fairly clear english. you have to read it for what is on the page first, and meaning is extracted from there on different levels. and much of the spiritual truths in the bible are written rather directly.

again, you are essentially saying that god's presence among the israelites (at times like the exodus) was "physical only." who is neutering the spiritual content of the bible now? you are. why do you suppose that people who are literally following god through the barren wilderness, relying on him for their very daily bread, would be lacking anything spiritually from god?

That is the anti thesis of what I ever suggested. The murmuring Jews in the desert were lacking plenty, obviously. Otherwise some of them would have made it to the promised land! Focus.

with every post you write, i am further convinced that you know nothing about the bible, and are not qualified to utter a single word about it. the "murmuring jews in the desert" conquered the promised land in the book of joshua. yes, after some 40 years of wandering -- but if you hadn't noticed (and i am sure that you have not), the running theme of the old testament is "man betrays god." god can be right there in the garden, and man betrays him. and yes, before any imagined "fall" man was fully capable of betraying god the second he left them alone for even an instant.

If they had not belly ached about the manna, and worshiped golden calves, while the cat, Moses, was away, and etc... maybe you could say they had 'arrived' spiritually. No. They were a mess.

tell me simple, since you are the only saved person here, blessed with the spirit of god and all the knowledge and righteousness that includes -- do you still sin? come back and try to argue this point when you're perfect in every way. because implying as such just adds to your claim to being false prophet, perfect in the ways of god. the bible says to stone you.

the rest of us, who have read the bible, appreciate it a little more. even if it were nothing more than lies, it would be an incredible historical work filled with philosophical arguments and beautiful poetry

That is as shallow a take on the word of Gos as could be imagined. Poetry, and 'philosophical arguments', that claim a messiah was coming, and came, and that the book was inspired of God, etc would be the most heinous, diabolical hoax ever foisted on mankind.

you apparently do not understand "if" statements. you were claiming that without your special tin-foil-hat understanding of the bible, it would be toilet paper and firewood. this makes it all the more clear that you do not understand the true worth of text, but have yourself been fooled by diabolical hoax. you fail to see even the base value of the text as a work of literature, let alone the historical and religious significance of the text. let alone the part that applies to our lives today. instead, you hunt for UFOs and anything you can scramble to piece together to make up for your appraisal of the text as totally worthless. you detract from the bible, and from god. the bible says to stone you.

and the fact of the matter, god did abandon the children of judah for a time. he says so himself.

Not His office over them. He did hide His face a few times, and allow them to reap the hell they sowed, but He still had His plan, messiah, and office very very, repeat very much intact. This is evidenced by the sacrifice of His son. God had to let Jesus taste what our death was like, the separation for a small moment, from the Father. Perhaps the Father almost hoped that Jesus , His son, would raise His little pinky, call in the angel air strike, and end man's rule??

god wished the destruction of mankind? he promised never to do so again. your ad-hoc storytelling is heresy. the bible says to stone you.

Instead, He had to forsake Jesus, apparently, for a moment. All for you. And you come up with this sort of tripe???

you, who makes up stories about UFOs, accuse the people who quote the bible of making up tripe. you are detracting from the word of god. the bible says to stone you.

there whole books devoted to this kings. there are books whose authorship is attributed to this kings -- in your view, god spoke through these people. your view is utterly disrespectful of the entirety of the bible.

On the contrary, it puts man in his place.

you are using this as an excuse to belittle entire books of the bible. the bible says to stone you.

No, it is a word that symbolizes God's authority, and He is the only one in the bible that ever had a sceptre.

this demonstrably untrue. i quoted in a previous post references to the kings of egypt, babylon, and persia all wielding sceptres as symbols of their power. but you evidently have such a short memory that i will have to post them again.

Now, fill us in, was that a king of ISRAEL, that held that sceptre???? You ought to hang your head in shame.

your point was wrong. the word does not mean "god's UFO." it is a staff that signifies tribal leadership. it does not symbolize god's authority, it symbolizes the authority of a king. when the verse talks about god, it is god's authority as a king. when the verse talks about an earthly king, such as the king of babylon, persia, or egypt, it is the authority of an earthly king. all it means is "authority." whether or not a king of judah actually held a staff is irrelevent, as it is just symbolic of the power bestowed upon him. the power is the point of the verse. not a stick. and certainly not a UFO.

Worldly kings have offices as well. So???? The office over Judah was...class...Who????

david. david was the king of israel, from the house of judah. his son solomon was was the king of israel, from the house of judah. his son rehoboam was king of judah. and so on. the verse in genesis is saying that kings come from judah.

I never said blessing, THAT depends on OBEDIENCE!!! I said office, rule. Get serious.

you said "UFO." you get serious.

i'm sorry, what? jesus took over god's job?

In the world of men, of course!!! Jesus IS the way, the truth, and the light, NO man cometh unto the Father, but by Him. Jesus is the only Christmas star around you can follow now.

sometimes i am surprised that i can even find anything to say to you. it's like talking to someone with alzheimers. the same conversation, over and over, never once stopping to make any sense whatsoever.

no, they were happy it did not disappear.

You make it sound like they were a bunch of silly morons, that jumped up and down, and got a mench in the bible itself, every time a new evening came round. Ridiculous.

you make it sound like they were UFO chasers. and no, they were only happy to see it again once herod proved a false lead.

you're still not getting it. these weren't pizza delivery boys. they were astrologers. why is this so hard to understand? astrologers get information from stars.

OOHH. I see. So, we can tweak the test, and demo, here, to make it real easy for you. Call up some astrology club, and ask them to deliver a telescope to your door. Tell them to follow a star!!! You really must be kidding. That is patently absurd. Get a grip, man.

no, simple. not astronomy. astrology. astrology is like those horoscopes you read in the newspaper, where you find your sign and it tells you about the day you're going to have. except it was a lot less goofy, and more of a serious religion back in the first century AD. it was the practice of looking to the stars to obtain information. persian astrologers associated certain constellations with the jews, and would be the only ones who would have interpretted the stars to mean that a king had been born to the jews.

I was referring to how we Christians are all married to Jesus. I won't get into the good stuff on a non Christian public forum!!

yes, well, have a fun honeymoon. but we don't want to hear your sexual fantasies about jesus.

you're still not reading. just because today we all view the world in a judeo-christian-centric fashion doesn't mean that everyone always did. israel is part of our cultural tradition -- but in the first century AD it wasn't part of anyone's tradition.

So, why pretend that countries sent folks there????? Try and focus.

because it's the only reading that fits.

except persia. do you understand this now? "knowing of" and "caring about" are two very different things. only persia would have cared.

Woulda shoulda coulda. Maybe, smaybe, baby. This is your pretend case support????

do you really have nothing to add? is the entirety of your comment the level of discourse on a grade-school playground? persia had reason to care about israel. nobody else did. magi were persian astrologers. there were two empires in the world at the time, rome, and persia. and they didn't come from rome. look, it's persia. this isn't even a debate. they came from persia.

yes, that magi (persian astrologers) were from persia is making stuff up. but UFOs, that's obvious! come on.

God's wheels are bible basics.

understanding what the word "vision" means is bible basics. go back and re-read ezekiel.

Claiming that all the wise men were living in Iran, regardless of where they were born is dreamland.

not iran. persia. magi are persian astrologers. that means they're from persia. and they're astrologers.

If these Magi never traveled, why were they in Jerusalem???

because they were sent there. are you really following the story this badly?

Are you suggesting that ALL who used the silk road, or ships always came back to their countries every time?? If not, then, assuming the Magi are as you think, how is it they were hogtied to Iran?? Why not have one in China, or India??

because you're making stuff up. you have no reason to assume that persian astrologers came from anywhere other than persia.

you're talking about UFOs. don't forget that. you're also talking about spiritualistic nonsense that runs contrary to what the word of god says. the bible says to stone you, as you are a false prophet advocating that we follow other gods.

Other Gods like the messiah??? Like the Ancient of Days?? Your violent fantasies are noted.

other gods like "not the one of the bible." the one that zips around in a flying saucer. the bible says to stone you.

You seriously suggest here, that the legions sent to punish the rebellious Jews, were all from Israel?? Absurd.

no. i'm suggesting that israel was already occupied by the romans. try to pay attention.

under deuteronomical law, sacrifices can only be performed at the temple. which does not exist. the person who rebuilds the temple will be the messiah, not the anti-christ, and animal sacrifices will no longer be required.

We shall see. I can tell you one thing, Jesus ain't building no temple in old Jerusalem

new jerusalem. i did not think i had to spell out the book of revelation for you.

All you are saying, is that many Jews will embrace the AntiChrist as the messiah!!!! This is news????

no. i am saying that you are an anti-semite, and should be completely ashamed of yourself. the jewish expectations for the messiah are directly related to (and probably the basis of) the second coming of christ. compare your "jesus is a space alien" prophecy about the messiah from daniel to the book of revelation.

You seem to claim here that the Hindus recorded the Christmas star. Prove it.

no, i claim that they recorded everything. there are at least a half dozen (astrological!) events in the night sky around the time of the birth of christ, recorded by the hindus. feel free to do some research and find some. one in particular was even recorded on a roman coin, pictured at the beginning of this thread. you want an explanation, you find it, but i am not putting my support behind any one rationalization. they are all better than "UFO!"

i am not sure why you think anyone would see your point as anything other than pure and unadulterated lunacy. even ray martinez called you a crackpot. do you have any appreciation for what that means on the internet? it's like peter popoff calling you a fraud.

Never heard of the silly guy. If he wants my notice, he can say it himself, and see how far he gets.

www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=1&t=143&m=124#124 -->www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=1&t=143&m=124#124">http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=1&t=143&m=124#124

i would be more than happy to see you two crackpots fight it out over who's loonier. enjoy.


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by simple, posted 10-28-2007 12:40 AM simple has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by simple, posted 10-29-2007 2:42 AM arachnophilia has responded

  
simple 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 276 of 278 (431065)
10-29-2007 2:42 AM
Reply to: Message 275 by arachnophilia
10-28-2007 2:09 AM


Taking away your stones
then why doesn't anyone else who believes in him see this nonsense you are coming up with? you are just using this an excuse to perpetuate your imaginative misinterpretations. it's not god, or the holy spirit, it's you, simple. it's all you -- and for you to bring up this sort of crap about it being god implies that nobody else besides you has the spirit of god. you are claiming to be a prophet, and you are a false one. the bible says to stone you.

and yes, ray martinez uses the same excuse for his nonsense, too. and even he thought you were silly for talking about god's spaceship.

Well, never heard of this ray, and your prophet gibberish is insanity. The bible basics of God's wheels, and such, are just something that seem to rub your unbelieving natural take on things the wrong way. Tough. Let me assure you, your threats of stoning me are met with humor. If you met me, you would call me sir. I kid you not.

no. it isn't. it is you making god out to be a liar, be claiming he wrote one thing, but meant another. the bible says to stone you.
OK, so you are welcome to your opinion. I, as anyone here that can read would likely notice, make out God and the bible to be true, unlike you.

the running theme of the old testament is "man betrays god." god can be right there in the garden, and man betrays him. and yes, before any imagined "fall" man was fully capable of betraying god the second he left them alone for even an instant.

No. No idea what you are prattling on about. You are welcome to your opinion.

tell me simple, since you are the only saved person here, blessed with the spirit of god and all the knowledge and righteousness that includes -- do you still sin? come back and try to argue this point when you're perfect in every way. because implying as such just adds to your claim to being false prophet, perfect in the ways of god. the bible says to stone you.

Heaven is full of sinners. So??

Message 275 of 275 10-27-2007 11:09 PM
let's stone simple.
both your premise and your conclusion are faulty. a god who writes in cryptic tomes such that only the select few, or this case, the select one can understand it, is a god of lies. you are painting god to be a liar, someone who says one thing but means another.

Complete nonsense, of course. In the extreme. He gave us the choice to select Him. And His spirit, as a consequence. He made it crystal clear, and simple, in the bible that we could understand, but we NEED his spirit, and help.

then why doesn't anyone else who believes in him see this nonsense you are coming up with? you are just using this an excuse to perpetuate your imaginative misinterpretations. it's not god, or the holy spirit, it's you, simple. it's all you -- and for you to bring up this sort of crap about it being god implies that nobody else besides you has the spirit of god. you are claiming to be a prophet, and you are a false one. the bible says to stone you.

and yes, ray martinez uses the same excuse for his nonsense, too. and even he thought you were silly for talking about god's spaceship.

It is not God lying,

no. it isn't. it is you making god out to be a liar, be claiming he wrote one thing, but meant another. the bible says to stone you.

by any natural only minded stretch of the imagination, when He says we need, repeat need, repeat need, repeat need, repeat need, emphasis on need, repeat need to have His spirit, to comprehend.

god gave us all brains. i'm sorry that you do not feel the need to actually use yours. what the bible says of one needing faith to understand is not a matter of coded messages. it's a matter of the bible speaking of many spiritual truths, philosophical matters, that one might not easily understand without a point of reference. it is not a blank check to interpret any passage you like as being about UFOs and claim it as divine inspiration on your part. you are claiming to be a prophet, and you are false. the bible says to stone you.

That is something you need to get a handle on pronto. Before you can, repeat can proceed any further. That is how it is. Need I repeat myself here????

that is all you have ever done. like a heathen, who thinks his prayers will be heard for his much speaking.

So, the spiritual importance of it, means what??? Does it mean that it was written by a spirit, and needs a spirit to unlock it's mysteries?? Or do you use 'spiritual' as some mentally conjured, 'in the head only', bible is a pack of nonsense' way?? Do tell.

if by "mentally conjured, in the head only, bible is a pack of nonsense" way you mean like you have been doing for this entire thread, no. i do not treat the bible that way. you do. the bible is written in rather black and white hebrew and greek. depending on your translation, it's in fairly clear english. you have to read it for what is on the page first, and meaning is extracted from there on different levels. and much of the spiritual truths in the bible are written rather directly.

again, you are essentially saying that god's presence among the israelites (at times like the exodus) was "physical only." who is neutering the spiritual content of the bible now? you are. why do you suppose that people who are literally following god through the barren wilderness, relying on him for their very daily bread, would be lacking anything spiritually from god?

That is the anti thesis of what I ever suggested. The murmuring Jews in the desert were lacking plenty, obviously. Otherwise some of them would have made it to the promised land! Focus.

with every post you write, i am further convinced that you know nothing about the bible, and are not qualified to utter a single word about it. the "murmuring jews in the desert" conquered the promised land in the book of joshua. yes, after some 40 years of wandering -- but if you hadn't noticed (and i am sure that you have not), the running theme of the old testament is "man betrays god." god can be right there in the garden, and man betrays him. and yes, before any imagined "fall" man was fully capable of betraying god the second he left them alone for even an instant.

If they had not belly ached about the manna, and worshiped golden calves, while the cat, Moses, was away, and etc... maybe you could say they had 'arrived' spiritually. No. They were a mess.

tell me simple, since you are the only saved person here, blessed with the spirit of god and all the knowledge and righteousness that includes -- do you still sin? come back and try to argue this point when you're perfect in every way. because implying as such just adds to your claim to being false prophet, perfect in the ways of god. the bible says to stone you.

the rest of us, who have read the bible, appreciate it a little more. even if it were nothing more than lies, it would be an incredible historical work filled with philosophical arguments and beautiful poetry

That is as shallow a take on the word of Gos as could be imagined. Poetry, and 'philosophical arguments', that claim a messiah was coming, and came, and that the book was inspired of God, etc would be the most heinous, diabolical hoax ever foisted on mankind.

you apparently do not understand "if" statements. you were claiming that without your special tin-foil-hat understanding of the bible, it would be toilet paper and firewood. this makes it all the more clear that you do not understand the true worth of text, but have yourself been fooled by diabolical hoax. you fail to see even the base value of the text as a work of literature, let alone the historical and religious significance of the text. let alone the part that applies to our lives today. instead, you hunt for UFOs and anything you can scramble to piece together to make up for your appraisal of the text as totally worthless. you detract from the bible, and from god. the bible says to stone you.

Stop blathering. If the bible is the pack of fairy tales you make it out to be, any real man ought to have the kahonies to toss the garbage out. God is either God, or He isn't. Stand up, man.

god wished the destruction of mankind? he promised never to do so again. your ad-hoc storytelling is heresy. the bible says to stone you.
Prove it. He simply said that He would not do it with water again. The angels at the ready, watching day and night for Jesus to give the signal, and raise that baby finger were not going to come down with water pistols. Get serious. And come down to end this world they would have.

you, who makes up stories about UFOs, accuse the people who quote the bible of making up tripe. you are detracting from the word of god. the bible says to stone you.
Any time, pal. I mean that.

you make it sound like they were UFO chasers. and no, they were only happy to see it again once herod proved a false lead.
Yes. The followed a UFO, and Herod had no clue. So??

your point was wrong. the word does not mean "god's UFO." it is a staff that signifies tribal leadership. it does not symbolize god's authority, it symbolizes the authority of a king.
False. like the king that held the sceptre you posted, and never admitted was not from Israel. The sceptre was the office of God, and that included kings. But was not limited to them, therefore YOUR claims that God's word is false are exposed as a fraud. You prance around here and many seem to think you are the resident bible expert. Let's hope they see through that lie now. You are a natural only minded rip off.

you are using this as an excuse to belittle entire books of the bible. the bible says to stone you.
Not in any way at all is that true. I believe the bible, you cast it to the ground, and stomp on it as a filthy lie. I am onto you.

no, simple. not astronomy. astrology. astrology is like those horoscopes you read in the newspaper, where you find your sign and it tells you about the day you're going to have. except it was a lot less goofy, and more of a serious religion back in the first century AD. it was the practice of looking to the stars to obtain information. persian astrologers associated certain constellations with the jews, and would be the only ones who would have interpretted the stars to mean that a king had been born to the jews.
Fine. I am going to be lenient on you, and go the extra mile here for you. I will make it real easy. Just call your newspaper astrologer, and ask him or her to find your house, just give them your birth date. Face the facts, man, that can not guide them to your city, or town, and very house. Say uncle.

do you really have nothing to add? is the entirety of your comment the level of discourse on a grade-school playground? persia had reason to care about israel. nobody else did. magi were persian astrologers. there were two empires in the world at the time, rome, and persia. and they didn't come from rome. look, it's persia. this isn't even a debate. they came from persia.
Stop fantasizing. The bible doesn't say countries sent the wise men. That is bull.

because you're making stuff up. you have no reason to assume that persian astrologers came from anywhere other than persia.
Prove that they were Iranian, and came from there. You are pathetically lacking in the slightest proof, or bible for your la la dreams.

understanding what the word "vision" means is bible basics. go back and re-read ezekiel.
If I see something, I use vision. So??? Zeke saw the wheels and throne of God. Now, if you want to claim that was a vision of another time, well, I can allow that. Maybe he saw the Christmas star long before it came???

yes, well, have a fun honeymoon. but we don't want to hear your sexual fantasies about jesus.
He has His gals, I have mine. We are not queer, if that is your insinuation. Neither was Mary.

We shall see. I can tell you one thing, Jesus ain't building no temple in old Jerusalem

new jerusalem. i did not think i had to spell out the book of revelation for you.


Oh, so the temple is in New Jerusalem???

Re 21:22 - And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

Now, the word temple is also used in Revelations, about heaven, but, according to this commentary, not the temple you refer to.

"and serve him day and night in his temple;
not in any material temple, but in the new Jerusalem, the general assembly and church of the firstborn, the temple of the living God; for in this state there will be no material temple, or place of worship, but God and the Lamb will be the temple thereof, (Revelation 21:22) ;"

http://www.studylight.org/com/geb/view.cgi?book=re&chapter=7&verse=15

the jewish expectations for the messiah are directly related to (and probably the basis of) the second coming of christ. compare your "jesus is a space alien" prophecy about the messiah from daniel to the book of revelation.

Any English translation of this claim??? Jews await the second coming now, according to you????

no, i claim that they recorded everything. there are at least a half dozen (astrological!) events in the night sky around the time of the birth of christ, recorded by the hindus. feel free to do some research and find some. one in particular was even recorded on a roman coin, pictured at the beginning of this thread. you want an explanation, you find it, but i am not putting my support behind any one rationalization. they are all better than "UFO!"
Prove it. Show us how a star guides men to a house??? Why talk for nothing, support your claims.

Edited by simple, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by arachnophilia, posted 10-28-2007 2:09 AM arachnophilia has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by arachnophilia, posted 10-29-2007 5:43 AM simple has responded

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 209 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 277 of 278 (431077)
10-29-2007 5:43 AM
Reply to: Message 276 by simple
10-29-2007 2:42 AM


bow before simple's immense ego
Well, never heard of this ray

then you haven't been paying attention. he's rather well known all over the internet, especially here and talk.origins, as the resident crank.

and your prophet gibberish is insanity.

er, no, your claims that are tantamount to claiming that you are a prophet, the only true messenger of god's holy word about UFOs, are insanity. that's kind of the point. claiming special knowledge, imparted to you by the heavens, that those with a more rational grounding in reality are not privy to... well, that's actually one of the definitions of "schizophrenia." it's a mental disorder.

The bible basics of God's wheels, and such, are just something that seem to rub your unbelieving natural take on things the wrong way. Tough. Let me assure you, your threats of stoning me are met with humor. If you met me, you would call me sir. I kid you not.

they're not threats. they are reminders that what you are doing is the antithesis of what the bible teaches -- and walking around commanding respect (i would call you sir?) is the primary symptom of this problem.

OK, so you are welcome to your opinion. I, as anyone here that can read would likely notice, make out God and the bible to be true, unlike you.

actually, as anyone who can read already has noticed, and pointed out to you on multiple occasions, you turn the bible into a laughing stock. your claims of it being true are somewhat irrelevent -- you make it look silly in other ways. and as everyone has surely noticed, your reading ability is rather sub-par. after all, you began this discussion with a rather obvious misrepresentation of a quote ripped out of context. no one with a modicum of reading ability would ever have thought that the verse in question means what you think it does. and nearly 300 posts of corrections later you still refuse to admit that you made a mistake, and misunderstood something pretty basic. what an ego, you must have. "sir" indeed.

frankly, you're having problems reading verses in english translation that i can read in the original. i'll call you "sir" when you can step up to even the most basic standard of biblical exegesis. scratch that, i'll call you "sir" when you can understand the basic literal meaning of a text. that pretty much means "reading it." i'm not even asking for study -- certainly not the level of study i have put, let alone the level of study that other members like doctorbill have committed to. i'm asking you to read it, stop making shit up, and comprehend basically what it says. when you've mastered that grade-school skill, i'll call you "sir."

the running theme of the old testament is "man betrays god." god can be right there in the garden, and man betrays him. and yes, before any imagined "fall" man was fully capable of betraying god the second he left them alone for even an instant.

No. No idea what you are prattling on about. You are welcome to your opinion.

yes, i am evidently talking over your head. to come to that sort of consensus would require reading, carefully, the books of genesis, exodus, numbers, judges, samuel, kings, isaiah, jeremiah... and actually understanding the basic plot elements, themes, and being able to actually construct connections by logical induction. that sort of thing is way over the head of someone who claims "divine knowledge" has provided them with their silly excuses for exegesis. no, the bible itself is not good enough for you.

tell me simple, since you are the only saved person here, blessed with the spirit of god and all the knowledge and righteousness that includes -- do you still sin? come back and try to argue this point when you're perfect in every way. because implying as such just adds to your claim to being false prophet, perfect in the ways of god. the bible says to stone you.

Heaven is full of sinners. So??

so, before you walk around throwing stones at the very people who you claim the spirit chose to record his words, perhaps you should think twice. remember, with the standard you judge others, so will you be judged. if you claim that spirit of god was not with the people he led through the desert, because they sinned, the same standard will be applied to you. because you are a sinner, the spirit of god must not be with you, either. meaning that you are just as unsaved as the jews you were talking about -- nevermind the bit about your specially imparted divine understanding being totally fictituous without the presence of the spirit. but i'm sure i'm talking past you, again.

Stop blathering.

no, simple, the only one blathering is you. you would not know sense or reason if it ran you over while you were trying to cross the street.

If the bible is the pack of fairy tales you make it out to be, any real man ought to have the kahonies to toss the garbage out. God is either God, or He isn't. Stand up, man.

that's just the problem here, simple. you are the one making the bible out to be fairy tales with your UFO nonsense. that is why i'm arguing against you -- because you turn the bible into something ridiculous. and because you so plainly consider it worthless, as this post demonstrates yet again. even if the bible were only 100% fairy tales, it's still a very good and very useful book. even atheists value the text more than you do. and to hold such a, well, simple view of the text is just completely ignorant of its contents. much of it has nothing to do with historical matters, or events, but with the contents of the soul -- it is full of poetry, prophecy, cultural proverbs, philosophy. none of this could even be remotely described as "fairy tales" because they're not tales of any kind.

god wished the destruction of mankind? he promised never to do so again. your ad-hoc storytelling is heresy. the bible says to stone you.

Prove it. He simply said that He would not do it with water again. The angels at the ready, watching day and night for Jesus to give the signal, and raise that baby finger were not going to come down with water pistols. Get serious. And come down to end this world they would have.

no, simple, let's approach it like this. for every story that you invent on the spot, you have to prove it. the person making the claim provides the documentation, not the person that says "you made that up." otherwise, we try it your way, and i'll start claiming that god rides an invisible pink unicorn. the authors of the bible didn't think to mention it because they couldn't see it, being invisible. bullshit, you say? prove it. prove i made that up, and the holy spirit didn't tell me so.

that's essentially the weight of your claim. it's not my job to prove that every idiotic new story you weave is simply your own invention. you have to document where it came from. if not, the default assumption is that you made it up. no? you prove it.

Yes. The followed a UFO, and Herod had no clue. So??

you still have not proposed a good reason why people a thousand miles away saw a UFO in the east, went west, and then followed it to a house without anyone else noticing.

your point was wrong. the word does not mean "god's UFO." it is a staff that signifies tribal leadership. it does not symbolize god's authority, it symbolizes the authority of a king.

False. like the king that held the sceptre you posted, and never admitted was not from Israel. The sceptre was the office of God, and that included kings. But was not limited to them, therefore YOUR claims that God's word is false are exposed as a fraud.

look, you evidently have no interest in actually reading the bible for what's on the page. you just want to make up stuff in your head. that's fine, but keep it in your head, and stop thinking that by simply writing "false" and repeating your nonsense that you have an argument. you obviously do not understand basic concepts of relatively mundane symbolism.

You prance around here and many seem to think you are the resident bible expert. Let's hope they see through that lie now. You are a natural only minded rip off.

i am no expert, but i am a good deal more educated in the matter than you are. if you disagree -- ask the holy spirit what my signature means. i'll give you a hint: it's in the bible.

you are using this as an excuse to belittle entire books of the bible. the bible says to stone you.

Not in any way at all is that true. I believe the bible, you cast it to the ground, and stomp on it as a filthy lie. I am onto you.

simple, i remind you, you were just speaking poorly of king david (the psalmist) and king solomon (song of songs) and referred the books of kings and ezra as the faulty records of "christ killers." when confronted with the fact that your claims are utterly absent from (and even contradicted by) the bible, you choose to talk about how poor the inspiration must have been, that god did not make these matters clear in writting. you belittle the bible, and everyone reading this has noticed.

i do not cast it to the ground, nor have i claimed it was a lie. i claimed your claims about it were lies. there is a difference. the bible is not the word of simple. i debate you out of respect for the bible, a set of texts that you very fundamentally abuse and misuse. and you claimed repeatedly that without your special understanding, this text would be toilet paper and fire kindling. those are your claims, not mine. even if i did think it were lies, i would hold it in much higher regard than you do as truth.

no, simple. not astronomy. astrology. astrology is like those horoscopes you read in the newspaper, where you find your sign and it tells you about the day you're going to have. except it was a lot less goofy, and more of a serious religion back in the first century AD. it was the practice of looking to the stars to obtain information. persian astrologers associated certain constellations with the jews, and would be the only ones who would have interpretted the stars to mean that a king had been born to the jews.

Fine. I am going to be lenient on you, and go the extra mile here for you. I will make it real easy. Just call your newspaper astrologer, and ask him or her to find your house, just give them your birth date. Face the facts, man, that can not guide them to your city, or town, and very house. Say uncle.

what you are asking for is a miracle. i'm not saying that as a complaint, but because you evidently do not realize this very basic fact. the christmas star was a miracle. you are trying to propose a more naturalized explanation for a miracle. do you get that yet? it's the bloody title of this thread, "christmas star explained." you don't explain miracles. that's kind of the point -- they can't be. by trying to do so, you are robbing the text of its meaning and impact. you, mr. "spiritual minded" are taking away the spiritual aspect with your goofy UFO explanation. to say it was a LIE would have better than what you do. and to demand duplication of a miracle is testing god, which is silly in the extreme. might i also part the red sea? slaughter every firstborn in egypt? raise lazarus from the dead (again)?

Stop fantasizing. The bible doesn't say countries sent the wise men. That is bull.

yes, placing persian astrologers in persia is a fantasy. but UFOs, that's for reals!

Prove that they were Iranian, and came from there. You are pathetically lacking in the slightest proof, or bible for your la la dreams.

look, i've broken this down for you as simple as i can. you're just going to have to try harder to figure out why persian astrologers come from persia.

understanding what the word "vision" means is bible basics. go back and re-read ezekiel.

If I see something, I use vision. So??? Zeke saw the wheels and throne of God.

ok, let's start here. let's look at another one of ezekiel's visions.

quote:
The hand of the LORD was upon me, and the LORD carried me out in a spirit, and set me down in the midst of the valley, and it was full of bones; and He caused me to pass by them round about, and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry. And He said unto me: 'Son of man, can these bones live?' And I answered: 'O Lord GOD, Thou knowest.' Then He said unto me: 'Prophesy over these bones, and say unto them: O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD: Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones: Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live. And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.' So I prophesied as I was commanded; and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a commotion, and the bones came together, bone to its bone. And I beheld, and, lo, there were sinews upon them, and flesh came up, and skin covered them above; but there was no breath in them. Then said He unto me: 'Prophesy unto the breath, prophesy, son of man, and say to the breath: Thus saith the Lord GOD: Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.' So I prophesied as He commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great host.

Ezekiel 37:1-10


where was this field of bones? when was it? why the bones? who did they belong to? the problem you will have is that this is a vision. it's symbolic. read on the following verses. the bones symbolize the house of israel, and their return from exile -- they're not real physical objects, or real physical people. it's a strong image given by god to the prophet to make him understand what is to come.

visions are symbolic visual representations. they are like the dreams that joseph analyzed for his captors and for pharoah. they're like jesus's parables.

Now, if you want to claim that was a vision of another time, well, I can allow that. Maybe he saw the Christmas star long before it came???

you have no reason to connect these two texts, nor have you shown any argument as for why they should be connected. except that in your mind every shiny object is the same thing -- a UFO.

yes, well, have a fun honeymoon. but we don't want to hear your sexual fantasies about jesus.

He has His gals, I have mine. We are not queer, if that is your insinuation. Neither was Mary.

hey, you implied it, not me.

Oh, so the temple is in New Jerusalem???

Re 21:22 - And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

Now, the word temple is also used in Revelations, about heaven, but, according to this commentary, not the temple you refer to.

"and serve him day and night in his temple;
not in any material temple, but in the new Jerusalem, the general assembly and church of the firstborn, the temple of the living God; for in this state there will be no material temple, or place of worship, but God and the Lamb will be the temple thereof, (Revelation 21:22) ;"

yes, simple.

quote:
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

Any English translation of this claim??? Jews await the second coming now, according to you????

the jewish expectations of the messiah and the christian expectations of the second coming are quite similar. one is, in fact, based on the other.


אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by simple, posted 10-29-2007 2:42 AM simple has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by simple, posted 10-29-2007 4:40 PM arachnophilia has not yet responded

  
simple 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 278 of 278 (431162)
10-29-2007 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by arachnophilia
10-29-2007 5:43 AM


Run for your lives
er, no, your claims that are tantamount to claiming that you are a prophet, the only true messenger of god's holy word about UFOs, are insanity. that's kind of the point. claiming special knowledge, imparted to you by the heavens, that those with a more rational grounding in reality are not privy to... well, that's actually one of the definitions of "schizophrenia." it's a mental disorder.
Interpreting the bible in a believing spirit may seem like something strange to you. Too bad.

they're not threats. they are reminders that what you are doing is the antithesis of what the bible teaches -- and walking around commanding respect (i would call you sir?) is the primary symptom of this problem.
What I mean there, is, it is easy for you to talk about executing me on the net. In real life, you would not be so brave. Get it??

i'll call you "sir" when you can understand the basic literal meaning of a text.

We need to get beyond a surface reading level. That will keep in in a PO natural only shallow pool. Besides, a star literally meant a little light in the night sky, basically. You have offered nothing to guide us to a house by such a star, or by astrology, or any other way at all. You do violence to the literal text, then ask others to take your contortions as some sort of reality. Pathetic.

certainly not the level of study i have put, let alone the level of study that other members like doctorbill have committed to.

You wasted your time, get a refund. You haven't got a clue on the heart and soul spiritual basics, and you can't proceed an inch aithout that. Seems all you learned to do is doubt it. Your natural only version is the dead zone, the boring zone, as well.

when you've mastered that grade-school skill, i'll call you "sir."
Meanwhile, you have repeatedly called for a ritualistic execution of your opponent here, That is real grown up, ya think??? You don't believe in capitol letters, but want capitol punishment for those that whup your touche in a debate. Sad.

if you claim that spirit of god was not with the people he led through the desert, because they sinned, the same standard will be applied to you.

This means what??? Of course God led the rebellious murmuring Hebrews through the desert. They never got to the promised land, if you read the thing, however, because of it. This is news??? That doesn't mean, of course, that they never made it to heaven. They simply were made examples of, of what not to do. What not to be like. The old testament is like that, you know, that is what is is largely about. Sorry you missed that.

the books of genesis, exodus, numbers, judges, samuel, kings, isaiah, jeremiah... and actually understanding the basic plot elements, themes, and being able to actually construct connections by logical induction. that sort of thing is way over the head of someone who claims "divine knowledge"

If we don't have divine help, we ain't going anywhere understanding the bible. That is basic Christian fare. The bible is divine knowledge. To get it, we need His help. The whole thing is rather divine. Sorry you missed that, natural minded man. But, I suppose it might be a good example for others if they read this stuff.

no, simple, the only one blathering is you. you would not know sense or reason if it ran you over while you were trying to cross the street.
No, that is why I crossed the road, I followed a sense or reason. I suppose a star couldn't even guide you across a road, forget to a house in another city. Smaller lights, like crosswalk signals, can help one get across the road, however. Just like a smaller light than a distant sun, could fly over our heads, and guide us places. Sounds like you have too much pie in the sky to cross the road. There are a lot of roads to cross, to understand the bible. Start soon.

that's just the problem here, simple. you are the one making the bible out to be fairy tales with your UFO nonsense.

The mobile throne is bible. I never made it up. The fact a sun could not fulfill the Christmas star story is not a fairy tale. It is obvious. Others would see a distant sun, and it ain't guiding no one to another city, and house.

much of it has nothing to do with historical matters, or events, but with the contents of the soul -- it is full of poetry, prophecy, cultural proverbs, philosophy. none of this could even be remotely described as "fairy tales" because they're not tales of any kind.

There you have it kids, from the horse's mouth. Years and years of learing, and he sees no reality to the bible. A bunch of non historical, poetry, and la di da fables. Don't let it happen to you. Run for your lives.

for every story that you invent on the spot, you have to prove it.
Understanding scripture is not about proof, any more than science is. It is about comparing scripture with scripture, in balance, with the help of His spirit. The evidence of The Almighty flying is in Ezekiel. The evidence of Him in a body is in Daniel. I gace the links. The evidence of the wonders of the light in the sky over Shiloh, in the bible, demonstrate it was more than natural light. You need to clue in to that. You have really not made any cohesive case for a contrary position. I never saw one anywhere where else either. That is one reason that I say that the Starship Sceptre is the best fir, by far. Both with historical evidences, or lack thereof, and with the bible, six ways from Sunday.

you still have not proposed a good reason why people a thousand miles away saw a UFO in the east, went west, and then followed it to a house without anyone else noticing.

Of course I have. They were in tune with the vibes of the heavens, and knowledge of other things, that allowed them to see the entry of the Starship as an ensign that it was. They headed for where it was headed.
They then asked around, since it seems to many that the star disappeared from view for a while. No one knew squat, and the king was drooling all over them, trying to get them to spy for him, on the new king.

As they left the palace, the Sceptre came down low enough to get their attention, and moved before them, guiding them to the house where the royal family was actually now at. This threw the old fox Herod, off the scent, yet, the news conference heralding Jesus to the bigwigs of Israel was still held. Knowing that the mad demonic king was out to kill His son, the Father led the rich men, laden with treasures, to the pad of His son. They had their getaway money, and the angel came by night, and said get going right that night. God was way ahead of the pack of child killers, and wackos. Of course. The sceptre did not depart till after Shiloh came.

i am no expert, but i am a good deal more educated in the matter than you are. if you disagree -- ask the holy spirit what my signature means. i'll give you a hint: it's in the bible.

You are educated enough to use question marks. OK. I have no idea what it means. Since the name of God was a mystery, maybe something to do with that??? But I know His name, see, I am way more educated than that. It's Jesus.

where was this field of bones? when was it? why the bones? who did they belong to? the problem you will have is that this is a vision. it's symbolic. read on the following verses. the bones symbolize the house of israel, and their return from exile -- they're not real physical objects, or real physical people. it's a strong image given by god to the prophet to make him understand what is to come.

visions are symbolic visual representations. they are like the dreams that joseph analyzed for his captors and for pharoah. they're like jesus's parables.


No!! I'll give you my take on that bit. There are a few fulfillments there, likely. My opinion is that the greatest one refers to the ressurection of the dead, when we will have our physical bodies raised. In this case, an example of a certain area in Israel, likely, is used. Other examples could be where there is not even any bones left, like a death at sea, or such.
The other application, or parable, there, is fairly apparent, no?? Most likely, it would be the only one you have seen.

look, i've broken this down for you as simple as i can. you're just going to have to try harder to figure out why persian astrologers come from persia.
Can you prove that all of them were persian astrologers?? That is your claim. Next, can you show they never travelled to other countries, except for this one time??? Otherwise, how would you know which country they were in when they started their trip this time??? Answer these 2 questions. The thread is almost done.

yes, simple.

quote:Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

That verse refers to New Jerusalem, coming down from above to earth. Not some Jewish temple. You kidding???

the jewish expectations of the messiah and the christian expectations of the second coming are quite similar. one is, in fact, based on the other.

Reaalllly, now?? The Jewish believers expect that Israel will be invaded by the Antichrist? That he will take AWAY the daily sacrifice?? That he will rule in Jerusalem, in the holy place?? That is news to me.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by arachnophilia, posted 10-29-2007 5:43 AM arachnophilia has not yet responded

  
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