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Author Topic:   How to make sand.
jar
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From: Texas!!
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Message 16 of 121 (431044)
10-28-2007 10:34 PM


Bump to see if there is some other model.
Here is the opportunity for Biblical Christians or Creationists or Creation Scientists (if there were any) to step up and present a model that explains sand.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Replies to this message:
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iceage 
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Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
Joined: 09-08-2003


Message 17 of 121 (431127)
10-29-2007 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by bluegenes
10-22-2007 4:30 AM


Re: Flood Sand Production
Bluegenes writes:

Lots of sand in the Sahara, yes, but it may have formed fairly quickly.

The desertification of the Sahara may have formed quickly (in geological terms) but the residual fine grain mineral material did not form quickly and still needs an explanation.

The Creationist literature pretty much ignores the sand formation issue (which is also noted by the similar lack of responses by Creationist in this thread).


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AnswersInGenitals
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Posts: 523
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Member Rating: 3.4


Message 18 of 121 (431132)
10-29-2007 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
10-17-2007 6:09 PM


A tabletop model of sand formation.
Jar asks:
So what is a Flood model for making sand?

The reason we creationists have not presented a model to describe the process in which the Great Flood created much of the sand now seen in the world is because we felt it was just too obvious to any thoughtful observer to need mentioning. We forgot that you Darwinazis are so self-absorbed in your pontifical excrescence and dogma that you would overlook the obvious. The model for the formation of sand can be seen at any mining site. At these sites you will see huge tumblers that are loaded with several tons of large ore rocks and boulders and mixed with large quantities of water, yes, lots of water and then tumbled for several hours, reducing those hunks of rock and boulder to a fine sand like grit. You can find small versions of this device at any rock or lapidary shop. Now, take a million of those giant tumblers and scale them up by a factor of a few billion and you have the churning and tumbling action of the Great Flood that created a lot of the sand as well as the Grand Canyon and many other geological features. It always amazes us creationists that you Darwinitwits would think that a process that could carve the greatness and grandeur of the Grand Canyon would have any problem grinding some rocks into sand, grit, or powder. Also, if you were to throw a sack of seashells into one of those tumblers you would find that they are also ground into fine grit, ideal for a nice white beach.


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iceage 
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Posts: 1024
From: Pacific Northwest
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Message 19 of 121 (431135)
10-29-2007 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by AnswersInGenitals
10-29-2007 2:30 PM


Re: A tabletop model of sand formation.
Yeah i suppose that is how the YEC thought process goes except a flood does not act like a tumbler. Tumblers are specifically designed to constrain the material and concentrate the energy.

A Flood are capable of making sand but not the prodigious quantities that exist today. For example, large scale ice age floods such as the Missoula floods (evidence for over 50 reoccurrences and maybe 100) and the Bonneville floods did not produce appreciable amounts of sand.

The Missoula floods where large scale events. This flood deposited glacieral deposits from Canada all the way down to the California coastal shelf.

Edited by iceage, : No reason given.


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ringo
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From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 20 of 121 (431147)
10-29-2007 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by AnswersInGenitals
10-29-2007 2:30 PM


Re: A tabletop model of sand formation.
AnswersInGenitals writes:

The model for the formation of sand can be seen at any mining site. At these sites you will see huge tumblers that are loaded with several tons of large ore rocks and boulders and mixed with large quantities of water, yes, lots of water and then tumbled for several hours, reducing those hunks of rock and boulder to a fine sand like grit.

This is an oppurtunity for experimentation. Does the production rate depend on the amount of water or the time? Can you make more sand faster with more water?


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This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 31656
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 21 of 121 (431158)
10-29-2007 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by AnswersInGenitals
10-29-2007 2:30 PM


Re: A tabletop model of sand formation.
Well, lets look and see if that is true?

Would such a process work and produce what is seen today?

Well, it just so happens that we can see similar situations and find out if it would work.

Look at this image:

Here is a pile of boulders that has been pounded by water, not just for 40 days and nights, not just for hundreds of days and nights, but many thousands of days and nights.

But let me get it straight. You are claiming that the flood during its 40 day duration and the few periods post 40 day when the waters are receding, created the sand?

Is that correct?

If so, we have a potential model to examine.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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AnswersInGenitals
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Posts: 523
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 22 of 121 (431166)
10-29-2007 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by iceage
10-29-2007 2:41 PM


Re: A tabletop model of sand formation.
iceage writes:

A Flood are capable of making sand but not the prodigious quantities that exist today.

But of course, not all the sand was made by the flood. Remember that the flood occurred 1500 years after the fall of Adam, 1500 years of erosion inflicted upon the earth for Adam's sin. The Mazzola flood(s) might look like it(they) covered a wide area to us mere humans, but it (they) were miniscule compared to an earth covering flood of biblical proportions. Have you ever examined a glacial moraine? You will find large volumes of fine sand and powder, so you are just helping prove my assertion.


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jar
Member
Posts: 31656
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 23 of 121 (431168)
10-29-2007 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by AnswersInGenitals
10-29-2007 5:06 PM


Re: A tabletop model of sand formation.
So before the flood and after the flood sand production was by the same normal methods included in the current models?

Is that correct?


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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AnswersInGenitals
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Posts: 523
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 24 of 121 (431169)
10-29-2007 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by jar
10-29-2007 4:11 PM


Jar is up to his usual tricks again.
Jar writes:

Is that correct?

Yep. That is god's own truth.

Here is a pile of boulders that has been pounded by water, not just for 40 days and nights, not just for hundreds of days and nights, but many thousands of days and nights.

But of course, the great volumes of sand have been washed (by swirling water again) down the river and ultimately into the lakes and seas where some of it adds to the beaches you are so curious about. Check the geological history of this site. You will find that the falls were much further downstream from their current location. Where is all the land mass that used to occupy the canyon the river formed? Here's an actual experiment you can try, science boy. Shoot a stream of water from a garden hose at a large boulder. It won't budge. Now shoot that stream at a pile of sand. You will quickly wash that sand away. The only way the river in you picture could wash the eroded land mass away is to first break it down into fine particles. Your example just serves to prove my point. Thank you.

I notice that you also use the standard Darwinazi trick of showing a photo with resolution too low to detect the sand being formed by this process. Strange, given that your OP was concerned with sand formation, not boulders. Who's hiding their heads in the sand now?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by jar, posted 10-29-2007 4:11 PM jar has responded

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AnswersInGenitals
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Posts: 523
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 25 of 121 (431171)
10-29-2007 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by jar
10-29-2007 5:19 PM


Re: A tabletop model of sand formation.
It's a matter of scale. The flood accellerted the ensandification process a trillion fold.

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jar
Member
Posts: 31656
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 26 of 121 (431172)
10-29-2007 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by AnswersInGenitals
10-29-2007 5:26 PM


Re: A tabletop model of sand formation.
The flood accellerted the ensandification process a trillion fold.

I'm sorry but that is a nonsense statement.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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AnswersInGenitals
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Posts: 523
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 27 of 121 (431175)
10-29-2007 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by ringo
10-29-2007 3:19 PM


Re: A tabletop model of sand formation.
This is an oppurtunity for experimentation. Does the production rate depend on the amount of water or the time? Can you make more sand faster with more water?

We should all join together and collaborate on a proposal to NSF for a program to create global floods of various intensities and durations to quantify the model. This is what people mean by BIG SCIENCE. A secondary benefit is that this should help cool down the planet somewhat. Its impact on global population will be left a future study.


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jar
Member
Posts: 31656
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 28 of 121 (431179)
10-29-2007 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by AnswersInGenitals
10-29-2007 5:24 PM


Re: Jar is up to his usual tricks again.
I asked:

jar writes:

But let me get it straight. You are claiming that the flood during its 40 day duration and the few periods post 40 day when the waters are receding, created the sand?

Is that correct?

However your response "Yep. That is god's own truth." did not include a direct quote of that material.

I also notice that you later amended that statement to add that there is additional sand made by the conventional model before the alleged flood and after the flood waters receded and that the period before the flood was 1500 years.

So is the model you are proposing:

"Conventional sand creation as found in the current models interrupted by a 40 day rainfall followed by an approximately one year recessional event and then followed by additional sand creation by the conventional methods?"


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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AnswersInGenitals
Member
Posts: 523
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 29 of 121 (431180)
10-29-2007 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by jar
10-29-2007 5:30 PM


Re: A tabletop model of sand formation.
I'm sorry but that is a nonsense statement.

Hey! I'm a creationist. I get a pass on nonsense statements. Just feel lucky I didn't put it in 24 point type and rainbow colored letters. But since you have given up trying to support your assertions and are just resorting to ad harmonium diatribes I won't lower myself to addressing any further posts of yours. You asked for a model. I gave you a model. Mission accomplished.


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AnswersInGenitals
Member
Posts: 523
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 30 of 121 (431182)
10-29-2007 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by jar
10-29-2007 5:40 PM


Re: Jar is up to his usual tricks again.
So is the model you are proposing:

"Conventional sand creation as found in the current models interrupted by a 40 day rainfall followed by an approximately one year recessional event and then followed by additional sand creation by the conventional methods?"

Unable to deal with my clearly stated model for global flood sand creation, you are now resorting to a straw-man argument and trying to put words in my mouth (keyboard). I never mentioned a one year recession. Supply side economics will protect us from a recession of any length. But you are dragging us off topic.

Sorry, but its time to feed the sheep. I'll check back a little later and see if you people have actually taken the trouble to read my posts and have come to your senses.

Edited by AnswersInGenitals, : The voices told me to.


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