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Member (Idle past 4872 days) Posts: 624 From: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: What's the problem with teaching ID? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 422 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Creationists are not just welcomed, they are sought after. The hope is that one day a Creationist of Type 2b will actually be found who can present a Creationist Model that explains what is seen as well as the current models. Unfortunately, no such Creationist has ever been found.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Jazzns Member (Idle past 3939 days) Posts: 2657 From: A Better America Joined: |
I think there is an environment here on this site that is not the most cordial to creationists because in the science forums, moderators will activly pressure the participants to present evidence and to move the discussion forward.
This is unlike other sites that simply allow free-for-all type discussions. This is a paradigm that has proven frustrating for creationists and others. Recently there was someone who left feeling frustrated about being unable to support her belief in alternative medicine. Even evolutionsts have left some discussion frustrated when they did not have evidence to support their ideas. I think one had to do with a discussion about bigfoot. I think the key here is that this site is dedicated to allowing creationists and IDers to step up to the plate. Many time creationists and IDers claim that they HAVE evidence for their views and that their views are scientific. Here at this forum, those claims come under very close scrutiny. That being said, this forum is also home to many people who are incredibly knowledgable in various fields in both science and religion. There are still a number of creationist or ID members although they don't seem to want to post in science forums on primary topics related to EvC for some reason. Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)
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Beretta Member (Idle past 5625 days) Posts: 422 From: South Africa Joined: |
Well I'm not great on discussion forums having never participated before and not being quite sure how to get around though these things usually become rapidly self-evident. In any case to state my position -I was an evolutionist until around April last year when for the first time I was shown evidence for creation that I had never been aware of. I was shocked to say the least and began to investigate. It took a few months of avid reading before I was prepared to come out and admit that I no longer believed in evolution since it seemed such a ridiculous possibility considering how the whole world appeared to believe it . This stand was met with mostly hostility as if by my stand I had completely destroyed the holy grail. I found the reactions every bit as radical as Muslims, Roman Catholics etc being given evidence against what they believed. Though it was difficult to defend in the beginning -I find it easier and easier in a civilized environment; every conversation I have with evolutionists just adds to my information on the subject as I don't pretend to know everything and enjoy doing the research to inform myself. Anyway I might as well give it a go here and see what everyone has to say.
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Beretta Member (Idle past 5625 days) Posts: 422 From: South Africa Joined: |
Oh well, I'll sure give it a go -if I manage to find my way around!
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Beretta Member (Idle past 5625 days) Posts: 422 From: South Africa Joined: |
Evolutionists are not too keen on their myths being questioned either but anyway I'll see what the topics are and whether they compel me to put my foot in it. Thanks for the reply.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
I think that you will find that the "evidence" you have been shown will turn out to be misinformation. Creationist sources are notoriously unreliable and dishonest.
Nevertheless if you can manage to keep a productive attitude towards discussion you might be able to fit in here. (I just don't think that you will remain a creationist very long :-)
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Well I'm not great on discussion forums having never participated before and not being quite sure how to get around though these things usually become rapidly self-evident. In any case to state my position -I was an evolutionist until around April last year when for the first time I was shown evidence for creation that I had never been aware of. Ah, you "were an evolutionist", were you? Please, in your own words, state the theory of evolution. This should be no problem for a former evolutionist like yourself.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Maybe I haven't read enough but I've just joined the site and all I see is evolutionists agreeing with evolutionists. Are there no creationists on this site or have they all been chased away??? Maybe I haven't read enough but I've just joined the site and all I see is evolutionists agreeing with evolutionists. Are there no creationists on this site or have they all been chased away??? So, let's see. You've made up in your head a lot of stupid bullshit about the content of this site. Then you decided to drool out this nonsense in front of the people best qualified to know that you're talking bullshit, i.e. the people who participate on this site. Let me guess ... you're a creationist, yes? You're not just reciting falsehoods, you're doing it in the one place where you are most likely to be caught out. I shall never really understand you people.
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Beretta Member (Idle past 5625 days) Posts: 422 From: South Africa Joined: |
Oh well give this your best shot - what is it that most convinces you that evolution is true -sorry just have to ask -it always interests me to know this whenever I meet an evolutionist. Most people seem to be just generally impressed by a plausible story and don't know much about what they believe at all - I sense I may get some more enteresting answers on this site.
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Beretta Member (Idle past 5625 days) Posts: 422 From: South Africa Joined: |
Well lets just put it this way -I was an evolutionist in the sense that everybody is an evolutionist or so I thought. Learned it at school and beyond -never doubted it, never considered or realized that there was doubt out there -after all scientists are dedicated professionals with no bias at all -so I thought until I realized that everyone has a bias.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1433 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
what is it that most convinces you that evolution is true Several things. The most convincing is probably the fact that evolution occurs every day, in every species known, that there is no species on earth where evolution - the change in hereditary traits in populations from generation to generation - does not occur.
I sense I may get some more enteresting answers on this site. It's possible you may also learn something about reality, what evolution really is and how we can apply it to the evidence of evolution in the past. Enjoy. compare Fiocruz Genome and fight Muscular Dystrophy with Team EvC! (click) we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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Beretta Member (Idle past 5625 days) Posts: 422 From: South Africa Joined: |
'So, let's see. You've made up in your head a lot of stupid bullshit about the content of this site."
No actually I have not made up my mind about anything in this site but you seem to have made your mind up about what I think and I have not drooled anything out as far as I can recall. I think creationists make more sense of the evidence, yes in that sense I suppose I support creation at this point. Evolutionists tend to push their beliefs very aggressively though I have not found them particularly convincing. When I supported evolution, I did so only as a result of conditioning -never really questioned the paradigm, now I question it continually.
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Beretta Member (Idle past 5625 days) Posts: 422 From: South Africa Joined: |
The problem is that you are speaking of genetic variations not macroevolutionary changes which we never see so in fact evolution is not occurring every day before our eyes. Evolutionists extrapolate that variability and adaptation to the assumption that macroevolution has occurred and is still occurring. The whole thing goes back to "we're here, there is no God, so it must be what happened" -it's called a plausible story but requires much faith in something not observable by the scientific method.I suppose I'm off the topic of this section but anyway -there it is.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
It's off-topic to go into a major discussion here, but to list some of the points.
The twin nested hierarchy(see ongoing thread) The many transitional fossils that have been found. The known examples of speciation The existence of ring species The absence of any clear, hard boundaries that would suggest seperate origins for any group of life forms found currently. And that's just examples for evolution, without including the many things that some creationists tend to lump together as "evolution" (like geology, dating, cosmology...) Anyway since you claim to have these killer arguments against evolution why don't you actually start a thread to discuss them ? But don't be surprised if they are shot down in short order. As I said you have almost certainly been badly misinformed.
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Admin Director Posts: 13038 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
Hi Beretta,
Yes, you're off-topic, but if you'd like to discuss with others why they accept evolution then just propose a new thread over at [forum=-25].
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