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Author
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Topic: The Big Bang, Abiogenesis, and Evolution
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Force
Inactive Member
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Re: Lots of potentially heavy stuff
Chiroptera,
Chiroptera writes: Why would an "unbeliever" pray to a god in which they don't believe? I think you might be confused here. Since this is off-topic, why don't you suggest another thread to discuss what "unbelievers" think and believe?
The point with that is simple. It is my theory and it comes with some evidence, people I know that have died, watching them die, watching their actions, spontaneously become believers and start praying. A simple concept really. Anyways I am going off topic so im done here. P.S. In the end, in death, we all discover what we really believe, that's absolute.
Thanks trossthree
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Force
Inactive Member
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Message 259 of 300 (425530)
10-02-2007 4:52 PM
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Reply to: Message 257 by ringo
10-02-2007 4:47 PM
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Ringo, However, the words absolute and proof do have value in reality. Alot of people come to the EVC forum seeking truth in reality. Why else debate EVC.
Thanks trossthree
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 257 by ringo, posted 10-02-2007 4:47 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 262 by ringo, posted 10-02-2007 4:58 PM | | Force has replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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Re: Lots of potentially heavy stuff
Chiroptera, Oh that's typical, LOL. What a good way to defend your point. LOL. Anyways. Im done. Peace.
Thanks trossthree
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 260 by Chiroptera, posted 10-02-2007 4:55 PM | | Chiroptera has not replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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Message 263 of 300 (425540)
10-02-2007 5:18 PM
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Reply to: Message 262 by ringo
10-02-2007 4:58 PM
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Ringo, I came to the EVC forum to find truth(debate EVC). Alot of people here are wise and to hear what other peoples perceptions are on reality, such as Scientists, or yourself, jar,etc, is alot of help to me. However, to reduce an open mind to just Science is simply irrational. (I bet you liked my usage of the word irrational in that sentence/context, lol.) Anyways. I'm done here. We are OFF TOPIC. Peace. P.S. Originally I was a LDS. I have been reading these forums for years. The EVC forum is AWSOME in contrast to other forums. Now I am a Theistic Evolutionist. LOL. A cult, LOL. HAHAHAHAH, LOL..... Edited by trossthree, : err
Thanks trossthree
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 262 by ringo, posted 10-02-2007 4:58 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 264 by ringo, posted 10-02-2007 5:27 PM | | Force has replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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Message 266 of 300 (425547)
10-02-2007 5:43 PM
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Reply to: Message 264 by ringo
10-02-2007 5:27 PM
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Ringo, Science is the study of our physical and natural world(assumed reality). The way by which Science is studied is via the Scientific Method: Observation, Hypothesis, Prediction, Test(over and over again with different variables). In some cases if a theory has been rigorously tested and supported it is considered a fact(such as TOE and BIG BANG). Science does not deal in absolutes. I understand these things. Edited by trossthree, : comment
Thanks trossthree
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 264 by ringo, posted 10-02-2007 5:27 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 267 by ringo, posted 10-02-2007 5:57 PM | | Force has replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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Message 268 of 300 (425559)
10-02-2007 6:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 267 by ringo
10-02-2007 5:57 PM
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Ringo,
Ringo writes:
Not quite. Evolution is a fact. Period. It can be observed, just like gravity can be observed. Evolution would be a fact even if there never was a Theory of Evolution.
The idea of evolution started with an observation. If there was no observation of evolution, how could we even know of the idea of evolution?
Ringo writes: A theory is an explanation of a fact. True. However, a fact is not a fact unless a observation is made.
Ringo writes: As I understand it, the Big Bang is considered to be a fact by cosmologists. I'm not sure if there is a Big Bang Theory - i.e. an explanation of how the Big Bang happened. Read about Georges Lematre.
Ringo writes: Abiogenesis is also considered to be a fact. Once there was no life, now there is life. It must have started somehow, somewhere. We have no complete explanation yet as to how it could have happened, but we have a lot of pieces of the puzzle. We likely never will have an explanation (theory) of how it did happen, since chemicals don't leave fossil evidence.
True. However, I do believe that the chemicals in fossils can bond with other chemicals which means chemicals can leave fossil evidence. I believe It depends on how the fossils are being stored. Edited by trossthree, : new comments Edited by trossthree, : ops Edited by trossthree, : err Edited by trossthree, : change in words Edited by trossthree, : change... Edited by trossthree, : No reason given. Edited by trossthree, : No reason given. Edited by trossthree, : No reason given. Edited by trossthree, : No reason given. Edited by trossthree, : 1 more comment sorry.. lol.. Edited by trossthree, : No reason given. Edited by trossthree, : No reason given. Edited by trossthree, : last one i hope lol Edited by trossthree, : del
Thanks trossthree
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 267 by ringo, posted 10-02-2007 5:57 PM | | ringo has replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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Message 270 of 300 (425564)
10-02-2007 6:34 PM
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Reply to: Message 269 by ringo
10-02-2007 6:18 PM
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Ringo, read my last post, I changed my comments.
Thanks trossthree
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 269 by ringo, posted 10-02-2007 6:18 PM | | ringo has not replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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Message 272 of 300 (425576)
10-02-2007 7:44 PM
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Reply to: Message 271 by ringo
10-02-2007 6:59 PM
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Ringo,
Ringo writes:
Evolution is a property of living things. It would still happen even if there was no "idea" of evolution. If there never were any intelligent beings to have ideas, there would still be evolution.
If you believe in the dating methods then yes.
Ringo writes:
That sounds like the old tree-falls-in-the-forest koan. You can semanticize all you want about what constitutes a "fact". What's important is that the phenomenon happens whether or not anybody observes it or has any ideas about it. That's why the old creationist fallacy of "you weren't there" is so wrong. The events still happened and left traces that we can observe.
Sounds like Science to me =).
ringo writes: I think you're still missing it. A theory can be considered robust, reliable, useful, etc. but a theory and a fact are two different things. read post 182 by jar. =).
[qs=jar][i]Actually, there is a point reached where the confidence level is so high that use of the term FACT is acceptable. Certainly there is the possibility that new evidence might be found that will show that what was considered Fact is wrong. If that happens the term is no longer applicable. [/qs] http:// EvC Forum: The Big Bang, Abiogenesis, and Evolution --> EvC Forum: The Big Bang, Abiogenesis, and Evolution
Thanks trossthree
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 271 by ringo, posted 10-02-2007 6:59 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 273 by ringo, posted 10-02-2007 8:08 PM | | Force has replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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Message 274 of 300 (425582)
10-02-2007 8:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 273 by ringo
10-02-2007 8:08 PM
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Ringo, No that is not what he was saying, read the post he was replying to. Edited by trossthree, : er
Thanks trossthree
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 273 by ringo, posted 10-02-2007 8:08 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 275 by ringo, posted 10-02-2007 8:33 PM | | Force has replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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Message 276 of 300 (425587)
10-02-2007 8:39 PM
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Reply to: Message 275 by ringo
10-02-2007 8:33 PM
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Ringo, We actually talked in the chat room that is what he ment... ttyl.. Edited by trossthree, : comment
Thanks trossthree
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 275 by ringo, posted 10-02-2007 8:33 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 277 by ringo, posted 10-02-2007 8:48 PM | | Force has replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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Message 278 of 300 (425709)
10-03-2007 9:03 PM
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Reply to: Message 277 by ringo
10-02-2007 8:48 PM
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Ringo, Ok I am done debating whether or not you believe I understand what a fact is or what Science is, it all really does not matter. However, a better point that I have been trying to make is on this link below. My point is that our reality(life we understand) consists of certain principles and I think jar summed it up nicely in his first post on that thread below. http:// EvC Forum: Why Doesn't the Moon Have Life? --> EvC Forum: Why Doesn't the Moon Have Life?
Thanks trossthree
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 277 by ringo, posted 10-02-2007 8:48 PM | | ringo has not replied |
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Force
Inactive Member
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Dr Adequate, I am not a creationist, LOL. Edited by trossthree, : comm rem Edited by trossthree, : .. Edited by trossthree, : del
Thanks trossthree
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Force
Inactive Member
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Re: The bitter simple question
TyberiusMax, Science understands life the best it can with the tools it currently has to understand it. Eventually, Science may understand God but for now it will not understand God. Your point is good, matter has always existed all the way back to the begining of time. The Big Bang is the begining of time as we know it. What was there before the Big Bang? My faith tells me God/Heaven but one day we will know through Science if that is true. Have faith in Science it is a good tool but ofcourse not the only tool in the toolbox.
Thank you
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 289 by TyberiusMax, posted 10-23-2007 11:27 AM | | TyberiusMax has not replied |
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