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Author Topic:   Evolution is not science
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 168 of 305 (429063)
10-18-2007 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by Medis
10-18-2007 6:25 AM


Re: Explaining evolution; qualified
(Notice, I'm not saying natural selection is wrong, I'm just saying you could still argue for evolution even though natural selection WAS wrong)
I get what you're saying, but I think you need to understand the degree to which Darwin's model of random mutation and natural selection has come to be so associated with "evolution". While, in the past, there were alternate, non-Darwinian theories of evolution (Lamark's model being the most famous example), those theories had all been discredited by a century ago.
The term "evolution" has come to be so strongly associated with Darwin's model - at the same time that we've surpassed Darwin by merging his theory with molecular genetics - that, surely, any theory that would hope to refute and replace it would be called something other than "evolution."
So, I'm both agreeing with you and disagreeing with you. In the past, the term "evolution" could have been applied to a number of competing models - Darwin's, Lamark's, even Lysenko's - but, all this time later, the basic Darwinian model has so come to dominate evolutionary thought that the terms are surely inextricable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Medis, posted 10-18-2007 6:25 AM Medis has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 234 of 305 (432417)
11-05-2007 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 233 by IamJoseph
11-05-2007 9:54 PM


Re: the relative importance of facts
The creation chapter is not mythical
Why do you say that, when genesis 1 and 2 are both written in a style of Hebrew poetry used to indicate mythical events?
Like "Once upon a time" in English literature, Genesis 1 and 2 contain phrases that, to the intended audience, clearly indicate that the narrative is mythical. What leads you to believe that genesis is not mythical when it's written to indicate that it is?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by IamJoseph, posted 11-05-2007 9:54 PM IamJoseph has replied

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 Message 236 by IamJoseph, posted 11-06-2007 1:18 AM crashfrog has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 258 of 305 (432528)
11-06-2007 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 236 by IamJoseph
11-06-2007 1:18 AM


Re: the relative importance of facts
that this is the first alphabetical book, with a continuous, multi-page narrative which never existed before.
Except that it's not. It's not at all the first book, by any stretch of the imagination.
I can't make heads or tails of the rest of your post. It's just nonsense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by IamJoseph, posted 11-06-2007 1:18 AM IamJoseph has replied

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 Message 260 by IamJoseph, posted 11-06-2007 2:43 PM crashfrog has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 262 of 305 (432537)
11-06-2007 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 260 by IamJoseph
11-06-2007 2:43 PM


Re: the relative importance of facts
If you know of an older, alphabetical book, then enlighten us?
The Bible isn't alphabetical; dictionaries are alphabetical. I think the word you mean is "phonetic", but the fact that Hebrew has a phonetic writing system doesn't strike me as anything but trivia, an artifact of Hebrew's descent from Aramaic (I'm talking about the writing system here), which itself descended from the Brahmic scripts of India.
And obviously, examples of that writing are known. People didn't invent writing to write the Bible, Joe. They had been writing for centuries before the first records of the texts that formed the Bible. Some of those manuscripts survive to this day.
Edited by crashfrog, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by IamJoseph, posted 11-06-2007 2:43 PM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by IamJoseph, posted 11-07-2007 2:36 AM crashfrog has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 272 of 305 (432630)
11-07-2007 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 266 by IamJoseph
11-07-2007 2:36 AM


Re: the relative importance of facts
Alphabetical books, not alphabetical listing, is what was obviously meant here.
I don't understand what you mean by "alphabetical book." Do you mean "phonetic writing system"?
India is an older culture, and should logically have pre-dating writings
It does.
But equally, can you offer any explanation why ancient egypt, sumerian, phoenecian, chinese or indian writings - have not the same ancient output as the hebrew, in most cases being bereft of any finds - in terms of hard copy proofs in a consecutive thread evidencing their history?
Discontinuous cultures. The first Qin emperor of China, for instance, had a great deal of Chinese literature burned.
Nonetheless, enough writing survives from those times that we know those cultures had writings.
We know that there is no mention of Abraham, Ishmael, jacob, etc from any other source than from the OT, despite that many nations interacted with these figures.
Which indicates that these were mythical figures.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by IamJoseph, posted 11-07-2007 2:36 AM IamJoseph has replied

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 Message 277 by IamJoseph, posted 11-08-2007 2:17 AM crashfrog has replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1494 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 281 of 305 (432823)
11-08-2007 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by IamJoseph
11-08-2007 2:17 AM


Re: the relative importance of facts
I'll be honest with you, Joe - I can't make heads or tails of what you're trying to say. Since I can't understand your argument, I certainly am not going to be able to grapple with it one way or another.
Edited by crashfrog, : No reason given.
Edited by crashfrog, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by IamJoseph, posted 11-08-2007 2:17 AM IamJoseph has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by IamJoseph, posted 11-12-2007 6:32 AM crashfrog has not replied

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