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Author Topic:   Divinity of Jesus
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 106 of 517 (433268)
11-10-2007 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 105 by jar
11-10-2007 9:08 PM


Re: On Divinity of Jesus
I'm sorry but that is not only silly and laughable nonsense, it is irrelevant to the topic. Do you have anything other than theobabble or related to the topic?
You're wrong. And in the context of "What does the Bible REALLY mean" I can prove to you that you're wrong.
Now you may not agree as I'm sure you won't. However in terms of what the Bible MEANS to communicate to us, for those who do not receive Christ, His divinity will profit you nothing. ie. what He is will be worthless to you.
That is an important part to the Bible's message.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by jar, posted 11-10-2007 9:08 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by jar, posted 11-10-2007 10:06 PM jaywill has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 107 of 517 (433269)
11-10-2007 9:41 PM


Do you have anything other than theobabble or related to the topic?
Do you have any more than skepto-babble to prove that the Bible really means that Jesus was NOT divine?
I thought not.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by jar, posted 11-10-2007 10:01 PM jaywill has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 108 of 517 (433273)
11-10-2007 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by jaywill
11-10-2007 9:41 PM


On the Divinity of Jesus
Do you have any more than skepto-bable to prove that the Bible means that Jesus was NOT divine?
Of course I do.
If Jesus was divine while living among us then he taught us nothing.
A God can not be tempted.
A God can not be killed.
It is no big deal for a God to be resurrected.
It is no big deal for a God to perform miracles.
It is a big deal for a God to repeat fallacies like Jesus did; that there was an Exodus, a Flood or an actual Genesis.
No, the only way Jesus life can have any value or meaning is if he was totally human while living among us, limited just as any of the rest of us, the sacrifice of a GOD becoming man, to suffer teething and learning to go potty and to walk and talk and NOT knowing the future or that he really will rise from the dead, yet still following his path.
No, for Jesus to have meaning he must NOT have been divine while living among us.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by jaywill, posted 11-10-2007 9:41 PM jaywill has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by GDR, posted 11-11-2007 10:34 AM jar has replied
 Message 124 by Brian, posted 11-12-2007 12:11 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 109 of 517 (433274)
11-10-2007 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by jaywill
11-10-2007 9:36 PM


Re: On Divinity of Jesus
However in terms of what the Bible MEANS to communicate to us, for those who do not receive Christ, His divinity will profit you nothing. ie. what He is will be worthless to you.
Ah, the greed factor, the what's in it for me theology.
Sorry but "profiting" is unimportant, irrelevant and off topic.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by jaywill, posted 11-10-2007 9:36 PM jaywill has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 110 of 517 (433308)
11-11-2007 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by jar
11-10-2007 10:01 PM


Re: On the Divinity of Jesus
jar writes:
No, the only way Jesus life can have any value or meaning is if he was totally human while living among us, limited just as any of the rest of us, the sacrifice of a GOD becoming man, to suffer teething and learning to go potty and to walk and talk and NOT knowing the future or that he really will rise from the dead, yet still following his path.
No, for Jesus to have meaning he must NOT have been divine while living among us.
Not really. In my view, Jesus was human and divine, however I think His knowledge of who He was and what He was grew throughout His life and resurrection.
I believe that He came to see himself as Messiah which no Jew saw as being anything more than human. I also think that He saw Himself as the Embodiment of the God of Israel to become the suffering lamb of Isaiah, the one that was to suffer and pay the penalty for many.
I think that the realization of Himself as the 2nd part of the Trinity would not have occurred until after the resurrection, but His not having having the full realization of who He was does not negate the reality of who He was.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by jar, posted 11-10-2007 10:01 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by jar, posted 11-11-2007 10:39 AM GDR has replied
 Message 112 by ringo, posted 11-11-2007 11:36 AM GDR has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 111 of 517 (433310)
11-11-2007 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by GDR
11-11-2007 10:34 AM


Re: On the Divinity of Jesus
Not really. In my view, Jesus was human and divine, however I think His knowledge of who He was and what He was grew throughout His life and resurrection.
If Jesus was divine while living among us, I can see no value to his life and for the reasons outlined above.
I also think that He saw Himself as the Embodiment of the God of Israel to become the suffering lamb of Isaiah, the one that was to suffer and pay the penalty for many.
That never made any sense, and I just do not understand that at all.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by GDR, posted 11-11-2007 10:34 AM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by GDR, posted 11-11-2007 9:53 PM jar has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 112 of 517 (433323)
11-11-2007 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by GDR
11-11-2007 10:34 AM


Re: On the Divinity of Jesus
GDR writes:
In my view, Jesus was human and divine....
If Jesus was divine, He was just another god. Gods have been walking the earth since myths were invented.
quote:
What if God was one of us
Just a slob like one of us
Just a stranger on the bus
Trying to make his way home
-- Joan Osborne
If He was truly one of us - just one of us - He was truly special.

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by GDR, posted 11-11-2007 10:34 AM GDR has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 113 of 517 (433339)
11-11-2007 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Jon
11-10-2007 6:56 PM


Re: Muchos Erores!
Luke
The Book of Acts, and the Gospel of Luke, were both anonymous works, this is Sunday School level theology.
Some Jews did.
Some Jews did what, and what supporting evidence can you provide for whatever it is you are claiming?
Completely untrue.
Because.....
'Nother falsehood.
You don't really know much about Christianity do you?
More malarkey.
Because.......
No, sorry, wrong again.
I hope you put more effort into your essays.
You should also read your student handbook, it will tell you how to support your arguments.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Jon, posted 11-10-2007 6:56 PM Jon has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 114 of 517 (433340)
11-11-2007 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by jaywill
11-10-2007 8:58 PM


cheer up.
Im the happiest and most laid back person you are ever likely to meet.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by jaywill, posted 11-10-2007 8:58 PM jaywill has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 115 of 517 (433416)
11-11-2007 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by jar
11-11-2007 10:39 AM


Re: On the Divinity of Jesus
jar writes:
If Jesus was divine while living among us, I can see no value to his life and for the reasons outlined above.
The reasons you outlined above was based on the idea that Jesus walked around knowing He was God. What I said was that Jesus grew in the knowledge of who He was. He came to see himself as the Messiah over time. Being Messiah is not the same thing as being the 2nd part of the Trinity. Also the idea of him embodying the God of the OT would not make Him divine. It was part of what He would have seen in the suffering serveant of Isaiah, and as being part of His vocation as Messiah, in taking on the world's sin.
If He had been walking around the world remembering the good old times in Heaven with the father I would see your point. I don't think it was like that at all. Just look at the prayer at Gethsemane where Jesus prayed that He wouldn't have to go through with it, but He also prayed that the Father's will would be done. He didn't see Himself as part of the Godhead at that point. He saw Himself as the Messiah in the form of the suffering servant. He was taking a huge risk. Had He heard the Father correctly, and had He interpreted the scriptures correctly?
I would imagine however, that after the resurrection He saw things differently and would have had an a greater sense of being part of the Trinity. The Gospels don't really tell us whether He did or didn't.
jar writes:
That never made any sense, and I just do not understand that at all.
Just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it isn't true. I accept Heizenberg's Uncertainty Principle but it doesn't make any sense to me.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by jar, posted 11-11-2007 10:39 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by jar, posted 11-11-2007 9:58 PM GDR has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 116 of 517 (433417)
11-11-2007 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by GDR
11-11-2007 9:53 PM


Re: On the Divinity of Jesus
The reasons you outlined above was based on the idea that Jesus walked around knowing He was God.
No, the reasons I outlined above were based on Jesus being divine. Even if he did not know he was divine, if he was, the whole thing is just a fraud and joke.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by GDR, posted 11-11-2007 9:53 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by GDR, posted 11-11-2007 11:02 PM jar has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 117 of 517 (433434)
11-11-2007 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by jar
11-11-2007 9:58 PM


Re: On the Divinity of Jesus
jar writes:
No, the reasons I outlined above were based on Jesus being divine. Even if he did not know he was divine, if he was, the whole thing is just a fraud and joke.
I hear you saying what you don't believe. What is it that you do believe? Who was Jesus. Was He, is He, divine?

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by jar, posted 11-11-2007 9:58 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by jar, posted 11-11-2007 11:04 PM GDR has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 118 of 517 (433435)
11-11-2007 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by GDR
11-11-2007 11:02 PM


Re: On the Divinity of Jesus
I hear you saying what you don't believe. What is it that you do believe? Who was Jesus. Was He, is He, divine?
While Jesus lived among us he was NOT divine. Before his birth and post ascension he is and was divine.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by GDR, posted 11-11-2007 11:02 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by GDR, posted 11-11-2007 11:59 PM jar has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 119 of 517 (433441)
11-11-2007 11:59 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by jar
11-11-2007 11:04 PM


Re: On the Divinity of Jesus
jar writes:
While Jesus lived among us he was NOT divine. Before his birth and post ascension he is and was divine.
In some ways we're not that far apart and frankly I don't think that there is any evidence one way or the other in scripture. Both of us in my view are giving an opinion on how it makes sense to us.
It does seem to me that divinity isn't something that can be turned on and turned off. I certainly don't see Jesus as having any understanding of being divine and so scripture just records His thoughts and actions. As far as what is written in scripture is concerned, we wouldn't be able to distinguish between Him not knowing He was divine and actually not being Divine.
I agree that if Jesus had certainty about being resurrected it becomes a different thing than if He didn't know. Both of our positions don't have Him knowing. In my case it is because He wasn't aware and in your case because He didn't know.
I think the main thing is though that He went to the cross on faith that He was the one to fullfill Israel's destiny. As I said, it was a huge courageous risk.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by jar, posted 11-11-2007 11:04 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by jar, posted 11-12-2007 12:03 AM GDR has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 120 of 517 (433442)
11-12-2007 12:03 AM
Reply to: Message 119 by GDR
11-11-2007 11:59 PM


Re: On the Divinity of Jesus
I think the main thing is though that He went to the cross on faith that He was the one to fullfill Israel's destiny.
Uh, he did not have much of an option. Plus, once he was born he was bound to die. And his death was not that unusual, in fact two others were treated the same the very same day and location, and likely hundreds of others across the roman Empire were treated the very same.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by GDR, posted 11-11-2007 11:59 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by GDR, posted 11-12-2007 1:09 AM jar has replied

  
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