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Author Topic:   Divinity of Jesus
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 121 of 517 (433447)
11-12-2007 1:09 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by jar
11-12-2007 12:03 AM


Re: On the Divinity of Jesus
jar writes:
Uh, he did not have much of an option.
Of course He had an option. He didn't have to go to Jerusalem. He didn't have to highlight the corruption in the Temple. He didn't have to go on claiming to be Messiah. He was given the opportunity to talk His way out of it with Pilate but He didn't. Jesus went to the cross because He believed that He was the one to fullfill the Jewish scripture but He went as an act of pure faith, and He was later shown to be correct by his resurrection.
jar writes:
Plus, once he was born he was bound to die.
Aren't we all. What's the point?
jar writes:
And his death was not that unusual, in fact two others were treated the same the very same day and location, and likely hundreds of others across the roman Empire were treated the very same.
There weren't hundreds of other crusifixions, there were thousands. So what? There were many others who claimed to be the messiah that were put to death by the Romans. So what?

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by jar, posted 11-12-2007 12:03 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by jar, posted 11-12-2007 9:00 AM GDR has replied
 Message 123 by Brian, posted 11-12-2007 12:09 PM GDR has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 122 of 517 (433492)
11-12-2007 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 121 by GDR
11-12-2007 1:09 AM


Re: On the Divinity of Jesus
The point is that Jesus dying was not a sacrifice, nor was crucifixion some special type of suffering.
There are two things of importance here.
One is that if Jesus was divine then even death was just a sham. A God dying is simply a God pretending to die; a kids game.
Second, Jesus death was not a sacrifice. The idea that God could kill himself to pay himself some token that would allow God to the forgive mankind is just silly.
Finally, the idea of GOD actually becoming man, no longer GOD, not even God or god, but just man; that IS a sacrifice. GOD becoming flesh, dirty, smelly, often in pain, often unable to control even his own body; that is a sacrifice and lesson.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by GDR, posted 11-12-2007 1:09 AM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by GDR, posted 11-13-2007 12:15 AM jar has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 123 of 517 (433516)
11-12-2007 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by GDR
11-12-2007 1:09 AM


Re: On the Divinity of Jesus
Jesus went to the cross because He believed that He was the one to fullfill the Jewish scripture but He went as an act of pure faith,
Which is contrary to what the Bible tells us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by GDR, posted 11-12-2007 1:09 AM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by GDR, posted 11-12-2007 12:55 PM Brian has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 124 of 517 (433517)
11-12-2007 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by jar
11-10-2007 10:01 PM


Re: On the Divinity of Jesus
No, for Jesus to have meaning he must NOT have been divine while living among us.
How many humans do you know have no biological father?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by jar, posted 11-10-2007 10:01 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by jar, posted 11-12-2007 12:27 PM Brian has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 125 of 517 (433519)
11-12-2007 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by Brian
11-12-2007 12:11 PM


Re: On the Divinity of Jesus
How many humans do you know have no biological father?
I know of none.
What is your point?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Brian, posted 11-12-2007 12:11 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Brian, posted 11-12-2007 12:35 PM jar has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 126 of 517 (433521)
11-12-2007 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by jar
11-12-2007 12:27 PM


Re: On the Divinity of Jesus
Well, since Jesus did not have a biological father, then we can deduce that He was not human.
And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
So, the Bible informs us that Jesus was not human.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by jar, posted 11-12-2007 12:27 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by jar, posted 11-12-2007 12:37 PM Brian has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 127 of 517 (433522)
11-12-2007 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Brian
11-12-2007 12:35 PM


Re: On the Divinity of Jesus
Not at all Brian. The Bible asserts a miracle.
Now it could well have been a miracle, or propaganda, or a mistake, or out right falsehood. But it does NOT imply that Jesus was not man born of woman.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Brian, posted 11-12-2007 12:35 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by Brian, posted 11-12-2007 12:42 PM jar has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 128 of 517 (433527)
11-12-2007 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by jar
11-12-2007 12:37 PM


Re: On the Divinity of Jesus
It clearly says he did not have a biological father, which you agreed was a prerequisite for being human.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by jar, posted 11-12-2007 12:37 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by jar, posted 11-12-2007 12:52 PM Brian has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 129 of 517 (433530)
11-12-2007 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Brian
11-12-2007 12:42 PM


Re: On the Divinity of Jesus
It clearly says he did not have a biological father, which you agreed was a prerequisite for being human.
Um, no, I did not agree to that.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Brian, posted 11-12-2007 12:42 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by Brian, posted 11-12-2007 2:08 PM jar has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 130 of 517 (433533)
11-12-2007 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by Brian
11-12-2007 12:09 PM


Re: On the Divinity of Jesus
GDR writes:
Jesus went to the cross because He believed that He was the one to fullfill the Jewish scripture but He went as an act of pure faith,
Brian writes:
Which is contrary to what the Bible tells us.
Jesus through prayer and His understanding of the scriptures led Him to believe that He would rise again, but I suggest that if He had divine certainty about this He wouldn't have offered up the prayer in the garden of Gethsemane.
JMHO

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Brian, posted 11-12-2007 12:09 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by Brian, posted 11-12-2007 2:10 PM GDR has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 131 of 517 (433548)
11-12-2007 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by jar
11-12-2007 12:52 PM


Re: On the Divinity of Jesus
I asked if you knew of any humans that didnt have a biological father and you said "no".
Thus, as Jesus did not have a biological father, then he wasn't human.
Do you mean that Jesus was the only human without a biological father?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by jar, posted 11-12-2007 12:52 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by jar, posted 11-12-2007 2:15 PM Brian has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 132 of 517 (433550)
11-12-2007 2:10 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by GDR
11-12-2007 12:55 PM


Re: On the Divinity of Jesus
Jesus would have to be pretty retarded to be unable to join up the dots.
Born of a virgin, kills people with a glance, brings people back to life, that whole 40 day thing in the desert with the devil, His predicting that He will rise in 3 days (although this was a fictional prophecy), water into wine, chatting about His Father all the time........
Hardly a big leap of faith required.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by GDR, posted 11-12-2007 12:55 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by GDR, posted 11-12-2007 2:35 PM Brian has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 133 of 517 (433552)
11-12-2007 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by Brian
11-12-2007 2:08 PM


Re: On the Divinity of Jesus
I asked if you knew of any humans that didnt have a biological father and you said "no".
Uh, no, that is not what you asked.
In Message 124 you asked:
brian in msg 124 writes:
How many humans do you know have no biological father?
I know no humans that do not have a biologic father.
Thus, as Jesus did not have a biological father, then he wasn't human.
Uh, no, that does not follow. As I pointed out in Message 127, there are several possible explanations.
Do you mean that Jesus was the only human without a biological father?
I don't know. Again, I pointed out several possibilities to you.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Brian, posted 11-12-2007 2:08 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Brian, posted 11-12-2007 2:29 PM jar has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 134 of 517 (433553)
11-12-2007 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by jar
11-12-2007 2:15 PM


Re: On the Divinity of Jesus
So what's the difference between:
Do you know any humans that didn't have a bio dad
and
I know no humans that did not have a human dad
It is the same thing.
Uh, no, that does not follow. As I pointed out in Re: On the Divinity of Jesus (Message 127), there are several possible explanations.
Only if you change the definition of what a human being is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by jar, posted 11-12-2007 2:15 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by jar, posted 11-12-2007 2:36 PM Brian has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 135 of 517 (433555)
11-12-2007 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Brian
11-12-2007 2:10 PM


Re: On the Divinity of Jesus
Brian writes:
Born of a virgin, kills people with a glance, brings people back to life, that whole 40 day thing in the desert with the devil, His predicting that He will rise in 3 days (although this was a fictional prophecy), water into wine, chatting about His Father all the time........
Hardly a big leap of faith required.
Jesus In the view of the theologians I have the most confidence in saw himself as both a prophet and a messiah. Certainly He would have seen himself as being someone whom the Father worked through in a way that He didn't with others, but that would have been just an aspect of the fact that Jesus saw Himself as the Messiah. Through His life He worked out what that meant.
People still call God father to this day but don't see any divine connection to Him.
Brian writes:
kills people with a glance,
What are you referring to with this?

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Brian, posted 11-12-2007 2:10 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Brian, posted 11-12-2007 4:37 PM GDR has replied

  
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