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Author Topic:   Where/how do believers draw the line and why?
Spektical
Member (Idle past 5995 days)
Posts: 119
Joined: 10-16-2007


Message 1 of 88 (432348)
11-05-2007 1:42 PM


where do believers make the distinction between what parts of the bible to take literally and what parts not to, and why?
My contention is the biblical writings are so open to interpretation that it has caused the many sects within the primary faith itself.
Edited by Spektical, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminPhat, posted 11-06-2007 3:49 AM Spektical has replied
 Message 6 by jar, posted 11-13-2007 10:58 AM Spektical has replied
 Message 46 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-15-2007 3:45 PM Spektical has not replied
 Message 88 by riVeRraT, posted 12-03-2007 8:01 AM Spektical has not replied

  
Spektical
Member (Idle past 5995 days)
Posts: 119
Joined: 10-16-2007


Message 3 of 88 (432491)
11-06-2007 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPhat
11-06-2007 3:49 AM


what do you mean it needs to evolve? Its a pretty direct question.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by AdminPhat, posted 11-06-2007 3:49 AM AdminPhat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Admin, posted 11-12-2007 10:00 AM Spektical has not replied

  
Spektical
Member (Idle past 5995 days)
Posts: 119
Joined: 10-16-2007


Message 7 of 88 (433876)
11-13-2007 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by jar
11-13-2007 10:58 AM


The Bible speaks of man's relationships with GOD, of GOD's relationships with man and of man's relationships with his fellow man and the universe he lives in. Those lessons can help guide someones life and behavior and thus have value regardless of whether or not they are literally true.
But what is the concept of GOD? what's the reason for it? and don't you think we need a new concept or allow the concept to evolve to something that suits the zeitgeist?
The story of the tower of Babel puzzles me. How do christians view it (literally/figuratively)?
Maybe that single story is truly the definition of God...that he/she/it is greater than us because as the saying goes ...the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by jar, posted 11-13-2007 10:58 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by truthlover, posted 11-13-2007 11:28 AM Spektical has not replied
 Message 9 by jar, posted 11-13-2007 11:44 AM Spektical has replied

  
Spektical
Member (Idle past 5995 days)
Posts: 119
Joined: 10-16-2007


Message 10 of 88 (433880)
11-13-2007 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by jar
11-13-2007 11:44 AM


Re: Topic?
And what do you think the story is about or its moral is?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by jar, posted 11-13-2007 11:44 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by jar, posted 11-13-2007 12:13 PM Spektical has replied

  
Spektical
Member (Idle past 5995 days)
Posts: 119
Joined: 10-16-2007


Message 12 of 88 (433920)
11-13-2007 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by jar
11-13-2007 12:13 PM


Re: Just So Stories
huh?
We work for a living because of the the way nature/evolution works ie. adapting to our environment.
We don't like snakes because its ingrained in our brains from birth by people who's ignorant or agnostic ancestors were constantly being killed off by snake bites.
Childbirth seems harder for humans because we have a more complex brain that is more sensitive and oral than animals.
but what does that have to do with the story of babel?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by jar, posted 11-13-2007 12:13 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by jar, posted 11-13-2007 3:52 PM Spektical has replied
 Message 16 by ringo, posted 11-14-2007 1:24 PM Spektical has replied

  
Spektical
Member (Idle past 5995 days)
Posts: 119
Joined: 10-16-2007


Message 14 of 88 (434063)
11-14-2007 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by jar
11-13-2007 3:52 PM


Re: Just So Stories
well that was useless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by jar, posted 11-13-2007 3:52 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by jar, posted 11-14-2007 9:25 AM Spektical has not replied

  
Spektical
Member (Idle past 5995 days)
Posts: 119
Joined: 10-16-2007


Message 17 of 88 (434112)
11-14-2007 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by ringo
11-14-2007 1:24 PM


Re: Just So Stories
I guess what I'm trying to say is that there is more to the tower story than being a 'just so story'. Just like the grim fairy tales....or maybe I'm just giving the people of back then way too much intellectual credit.
The question is still unaswered....why do religious people take some stories literally and some not? What makes them so sure about their decision? and if these stories are open to interpretation because of individuality, then why universalize them into beliefs?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by ringo, posted 11-14-2007 1:24 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by jar, posted 11-14-2007 3:31 PM Spektical has not replied
 Message 19 by ringo, posted 11-14-2007 4:26 PM Spektical has replied
 Message 20 by Archer Opteryx, posted 11-15-2007 1:03 AM Spektical has not replied
 Message 25 by Phat, posted 11-15-2007 11:56 AM Spektical has not replied
 Message 77 by ICANT, posted 11-16-2007 2:26 AM Spektical has not replied

  
Spektical
Member (Idle past 5995 days)
Posts: 119
Joined: 10-16-2007


Message 21 of 88 (434289)
11-15-2007 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by ringo
11-14-2007 4:26 PM


Re: Just So Stories
Why would you expect rational answers from people whose beliefs are irrational?
Because I have faith and hope in humanity.
The story of Babel is a very profound one to me because it conveys how wonderfully creative yet trapped the human race was/is. It shows that if we came together alot of things can be accomplished. God is a means, not an end, and hence is ultimately irrelevant to our lives.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by ringo, posted 11-14-2007 4:26 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by ringo, posted 11-15-2007 11:20 AM Spektical has replied

  
Spektical
Member (Idle past 5995 days)
Posts: 119
Joined: 10-16-2007


Message 23 of 88 (434306)
11-15-2007 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by ringo
11-15-2007 11:20 AM


Re: Just So Stories
Good and true point, God is a hindrance. You should try applying the opposite to the stories in the bible and see what happens (for fun!).
The question is, "Where/how do believers draw the line and why?" - not "How can Spektical turn the Bible into a warm-and-fuzzy celebration of human creativity?"
That's a very obtuse perspective Ringo. Maybe I should've just plainly asked why are religious people living a lie? But of course the admins of this forum would never allow that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by ringo, posted 11-15-2007 11:20 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by ringo, posted 11-15-2007 11:50 AM Spektical has replied

  
Spektical
Member (Idle past 5995 days)
Posts: 119
Joined: 10-16-2007


Message 26 of 88 (434316)
11-15-2007 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by ringo
11-15-2007 11:50 AM


Re: Just So Stories
That's the reason for YOU and the rest of the people who have been brainwashed in early childhood. Its not the reason for ME, and to be close minded about accepting the possibility of other interpretations of ancient stories such as biblical ones is a sin.
I'll give you another example: The story of Cain and Abel.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by ringo, posted 11-15-2007 11:50 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 11-15-2007 12:06 PM Spektical has replied
 Message 28 by ringo, posted 11-15-2007 12:08 PM Spektical has replied

  
Spektical
Member (Idle past 5995 days)
Posts: 119
Joined: 10-16-2007


Message 29 of 88 (434320)
11-15-2007 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by jar
11-15-2007 12:06 PM


Re: Just So Stories
Wow, Holy Falsehoods, Nonsense and Shapeshifting rolled into one.
Why?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by jar, posted 11-15-2007 12:06 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by jar, posted 11-15-2007 12:15 PM Spektical has replied

  
Spektical
Member (Idle past 5995 days)
Posts: 119
Joined: 10-16-2007


Message 30 of 88 (434322)
11-15-2007 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by ringo
11-15-2007 12:08 PM


Re: Just So Stories
What is the popular interpretation of this story?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by ringo, posted 11-15-2007 12:08 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by ringo, posted 11-15-2007 12:26 PM Spektical has replied

  
Spektical
Member (Idle past 5995 days)
Posts: 119
Joined: 10-16-2007


Message 33 of 88 (434327)
11-15-2007 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by jar
11-15-2007 12:15 PM


Re: Topic
And I am not personally satisfied with that response jar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by jar, posted 11-15-2007 12:15 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by jar, posted 11-15-2007 12:32 PM Spektical has not replied

  
Spektical
Member (Idle past 5995 days)
Posts: 119
Joined: 10-16-2007


Message 35 of 88 (434329)
11-15-2007 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by ringo
11-15-2007 12:26 PM


Re: Just So Stories
fair enough.
The popular belief of the story is about the relationship with God and the choices the 2 brothers made. However, the story is really about survival.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by ringo, posted 11-15-2007 12:26 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by ringo, posted 11-15-2007 12:42 PM Spektical has replied

  
Spektical
Member (Idle past 5995 days)
Posts: 119
Joined: 10-16-2007


Message 38 of 88 (434336)
11-15-2007 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by ringo
11-15-2007 12:42 PM


Re: Just So Stories
That was my contention to begin with ringo....are you gonna contribute something of your own or just describe what I said?
Phat was really the only person who had the response I was looking for. The point I'm trying to make is that these stories are taught to us by the immediate adults who we grew up with. They taught these stories with love and conviction, so we learned it as love and conviction. Its a euphoric state no-one ever wants to challenge. However, euophoria is a fake blanket of security.
I know that Phat and other christians believe what they believe because they think it makes them better. But how does a person decide to be rational about certain things and irrational about others? Why has not a single person taken up the challenge of introspection....not a contextual one, REAL introspection?
Edited by Spektical, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by ringo, posted 11-15-2007 12:42 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by ringo, posted 11-15-2007 1:33 PM Spektical has replied

  
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