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Author
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Topic: Where/how do believers draw the line and why?
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 61 of 88 (434419)
11-15-2007 6:59 PM
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Reply to: Message 60 by Spektical
11-15-2007 6:43 PM
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Re: Is there a point?
Spektical writes: If a people (like the protestant movement) are feeling a certain injustice because of sanctions manifested by the Catholic church, they decide to change the interpretation of the biblical stories to suit their cause and separate. So "the Protestant movement" was one giant lump? What about Henry VIII separating from the Catholic Church because they wouldn't give him a divorce? Where's the difference in Bible interpretation there? To this day, there's relatively little difference in Bible interpretation between the Roman Catholic and Anglican/Episcopal Churches - and they're probably moving closer together, not farther apart.
I guess my OP should have been why do people practice religion. By all means, then, start that topic. Until then, discuss this one. We're still waiting for some substantiation of the claim that differences in Bible interpretation cause all the troubles of the world.
“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels -------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 60 by Spektical, posted 11-15-2007 6:43 PM | | Spektical has replied |
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Spektical
Member (Idle past 5998 days) Posts: 119 Joined: 10-16-2007
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Message 62 of 88 (434421)
11-15-2007 7:02 PM
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Reply to: Message 61 by ringo
11-15-2007 6:59 PM
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Re: Is there a point?
you're doing a very good job yourself
What about Henry VIII separating from the Catholic Church because they wouldn't give him a divorce? I also used the unitarian example which no-one has responded to.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 61 by ringo, posted 11-15-2007 6:59 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 63 by jar, posted 11-15-2007 7:06 PM | | Spektical has replied | | | Message 65 by ringo, posted 11-15-2007 7:14 PM | | Spektical has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 63 of 88 (434425)
11-15-2007 7:06 PM
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Reply to: Message 62 by Spektical
11-15-2007 7:02 PM
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Re: Is there a point?
I also used the unitarian example which no-one has responded to. You did read Message 54 didn't you?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 62 by Spektical, posted 11-15-2007 7:02 PM | | Spektical has replied |
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Spektical
Member (Idle past 5998 days) Posts: 119 Joined: 10-16-2007
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Message 64 of 88 (434427)
11-15-2007 7:13 PM
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Reply to: Message 63 by jar
11-15-2007 7:06 PM
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Re: Is there a point?
no because you edited it. Wikipedia: Unitarianism is the belief in the single personality of God, in contrast to the doctrine of the Trinity (three persons in one God). It is the philosophy upon which the modern Unitarian movement was based, and, according to its proponents, is the original form of Christianity. Unitarian Christians believe in the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, as found in the New Testament and other early Christian writings, and hold him up as an exemplar. Adhering to strict monotheism, they maintain that Jesus was a great man and a prophet of God, perhaps even a supernatural being, but not God himself. Unitarians believe in the moral authority, but not necessarily the divinity, of Jesus. They do not pray to Jesus, but to God directly. Their theology is thus distinguishable from the theology of Catholic, Orthodox, mainline Protestant, and other Christian denominations, who hold the Trinity doctrine as a core belief.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 63 by jar, posted 11-15-2007 7:06 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 67 by jar, posted 11-15-2007 7:24 PM | | Spektical has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 65 of 88 (434428)
11-15-2007 7:14 PM
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Reply to: Message 62 by Spektical
11-15-2007 7:02 PM
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Re: Is there a point?
You're not paying attention. I have asked you several times to show how Biblical interpretation is responsible for the rise of different sects. Henry VIII and the Church of England clearly does not confirm your claim. The OP asks:
quote:
where do believers make the distinction between what parts of the bible to take literally and what parts not to, and why?
You need to show that differences between Unitarians and Catholics, for example, are caused by making literal/non-literal distinctions.
“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels -------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 62 by Spektical, posted 11-15-2007 7:02 PM | | Spektical has replied |
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Spektical
Member (Idle past 5998 days) Posts: 119 Joined: 10-16-2007
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Message 66 of 88 (434429)
11-15-2007 7:17 PM
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Reply to: Message 65 by ringo
11-15-2007 7:14 PM
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Re: Is there a point?
You're the one with the attention problem Ringo...read the description of unitarianism above. Edited by Spektical, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 65 by ringo, posted 11-15-2007 7:14 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 68 by ringo, posted 11-15-2007 7:25 PM | | Spektical has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 67 of 88 (434431)
11-15-2007 7:24 PM
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Reply to: Message 64 by Spektical
11-15-2007 7:13 PM
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Re: Is there a point?
They do not pray to Jesus, but to God directly. Read Matthew 6.
5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. 9"This, then, is how you should pray: " 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, 10your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. 11Give us today our daily bread. 12Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.[a]' 14For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 64 by Spektical, posted 11-15-2007 7:13 PM | | Spektical has replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 68 of 88 (434432)
11-15-2007 7:25 PM
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Reply to: Message 66 by Spektical
11-15-2007 7:17 PM
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Re: Is there a point?
Spektical writes: You're the one with the attention problem Ringo... That's true. I have ADD and dyslexia too - and a touch of OCD.  But nothing in Wikipedia's description of Unitarianism addresses the OP. Show the differences in Biblical interpretation, specifically the distinctions between literal and non-literal interpretation.
“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels -------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 66 by Spektical, posted 11-15-2007 7:17 PM | | Spektical has replied |
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Spektical
Member (Idle past 5998 days) Posts: 119 Joined: 10-16-2007
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Message 69 of 88 (434434)
11-15-2007 7:28 PM
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Reply to: Message 68 by ringo
11-15-2007 7:25 PM
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Re: Is there a point?
well you should get some help then. I already mentioned in this thread the literal/non-literal interpretation distinction between unitarianism and catholicism. scroll up...are u capable of doing that?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 68 by ringo, posted 11-15-2007 7:25 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 72 by ringo, posted 11-15-2007 7:40 PM | | Spektical has replied |
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Spektical
Member (Idle past 5998 days) Posts: 119 Joined: 10-16-2007
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Message 70 of 88 (434435)
11-15-2007 7:30 PM
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Reply to: Message 67 by jar
11-15-2007 7:24 PM
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Re: Is there a point?
That has nothing to do with the fact that unitarians do NOT believe that Jesus is God...whereas most christians do. OMG Ringo that was for you!!!!!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 67 by jar, posted 11-15-2007 7:24 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 71 by jar, posted 11-15-2007 7:36 PM | | Spektical has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 415 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 71 of 88 (434439)
11-15-2007 7:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 70 by Spektical
11-15-2007 7:30 PM
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Re: Is there a point?
Did you read Message 54 once again?
Concepts about deity are diverse among UUs. Some believe that there is no god (atheism); others believe in many gods (polytheism). Some believe that God is a metaphor for a transcendent reality. Some believe in a female god (goddess), a passive god (Deism), a Christian god, or a god manifested in nature or one which is the "ground of being". Some UUs reject the idea of deities and instead speak of "universal spirit" or "reverence of life". Unitarian Universalists support each person's search for truth and meaning in concepts of deity. In addition, did you notice that they are different reasons. Buddhist do not believe Jesus is God. Muslims do not believe Jesus is God. Jews do not believe Jesus is God. Do you have a point? What does any of that have to do with the topic or the thread?
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 70 by Spektical, posted 11-15-2007 7:30 PM | | Spektical has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 72 of 88 (434441)
11-15-2007 7:40 PM
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Reply to: Message 69 by Spektical
11-15-2007 7:28 PM
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Re: Is there a point?
Spektical writes: I already mentioned in this thread the literal/non-literal interpretation distinction between unitarianism and catholicism. Then link to the post. Which is literal and which is non-literal? Is the Trinity literal or is monotheism literal?
“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels -------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 69 by Spektical, posted 11-15-2007 7:28 PM | | Spektical has replied |
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Spektical
Member (Idle past 5998 days) Posts: 119 Joined: 10-16-2007
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Message 73 of 88 (434466)
11-15-2007 10:54 PM
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Reply to: Message 72 by ringo
11-15-2007 7:40 PM
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Re: Is there a point?
unitarians don't believe Jesus is God even though Jesus says that he and God are one and the same. I'm not sure why you people can't just admit that beliefs are ridiculous. You can't prove anything the bible says is true and worse of all the whole christian teaching is irrelevant in today's society. Maybe I shouldn't be so blunt or blatant, but I'm really tired of hearing about stuff like the Jesus Camp and Islamic fundamentalism. The world has been torn asunder all because people still believe in literature that was written thousands of years ago. This is my last post here...I wish just for once christians/muslims/jews can stand up and be responsible and admit their humanity as opposed to striving for a fantastical afterlife. Edited by Spektical, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 72 by ringo, posted 11-15-2007 7:40 PM | | ringo has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 74 by ringo, posted 11-15-2007 11:50 PM | | Spektical has not replied | | | Message 75 by Phat, posted 11-16-2007 12:12 AM | | Spektical has not replied | | | Message 76 by Johny, posted 11-16-2007 1:12 AM | | Spektical has not replied |
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ringo
Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: 03-23-2005
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Message 74 of 88 (434480)
11-15-2007 11:50 PM
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Reply to: Message 73 by Spektical
11-15-2007 10:54 PM
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Spektical writes: unitarians don't believe Jesus is God even though Jesus says that he and God are one and the same. So, which belief is based on a literal interpretation and which is not?
I'm not sure why you people can't just admit that beliefs are ridiculous. Because that isn't the topic.
“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels -------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 73 by Spektical, posted 11-15-2007 10:54 PM | | Spektical has not replied |
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Phat
Member Posts: 18299 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: 12-30-2003 Member Rating: 1.1
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Message 75 of 88 (434484)
11-16-2007 12:12 AM
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Reply to: Message 73 by Spektical
11-15-2007 10:54 PM
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Re: Is there a point?
spektical writes: The world has been torn asunder all because people still believe in literature that was written thousands of years ago. So are you saying that belief in God is irrational?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 73 by Spektical, posted 11-15-2007 10:54 PM | | Spektical has not replied |
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