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Author Topic:   Designed/created to fool science?
EighteenDelta
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 11 (433898)
11-13-2007 1:42 PM


I propose this for the human origins section or I suppose it could fit into the ID section...
Since we seem to have a large enough crowd of evolution deniers, I would like to see how the creationist crowd addresses the issue of human chromosome #2. For those not aware,
wiki writes:
Chromosome 2 is widely accepted to be a result of a fusion of two ancestral chromosomes. [2] The evidence for this includes:
* The correspondence of chromosome 2 to two ape chromosomes. The closest human relative, the chimpanzee, has near-identical DNA sequences to human chromosome 2, but they are found in two separate chromosomes. The same is true of the more distant gorilla and orangutan. [3][4]
* The presence of a vestigial centromere. Normally a chromosome has just one centromere, but in chromosome 2 we see remnants of a second. [5]
* The presence of vestigial telomeres. These are normally found only at the ends of a chromosome, but in chromosome 2 we see additional telomere sequences in the middle. [6]
Fusion of ancestral chromosomes left distinctive remnants of telomeres, and a vestigial centromere
Chromosome 2 is thus strong evidence in favour of the common descent of humans and other apes. According to researcher J. W. IJdo:
We conclude that the locus cloned in cosmids c8.1 and c29B is the relic of an ancient telomere-telomere fusion and marks the point at which two ancestral ape chromosomes fused to give rise to human chromosome 2.
Also from Wiki
I know a lot of the creation crowd will simply wave this off as god simply recycling genetic materials in his grand design. Question though, how does god recycle materials that he hadn't at that point created, since god spoke the animals into existence, then crafted man from the dirt(not the animals).
King James Bible writes:
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Additional materials:
Chimpanzee genome project - Wikipedia
For those adverse to reading, watch...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXdQRvSdLAs
Please discuss.
Edited by EighteenDelta, : No reason given.

"Debate is an art form. It is about the winning of arguments. It is not about the discovery of truth. There are certain rules and procedures to debate that really have nothing to do with establishing fact ” which creationists have mastered. Some of those rules are: never say anything positive about your own position because it can be attacked, but chip away at what appear to be the weaknesses in your opponent's position. They are good at that. I don't think I could beat the creationists at debate. I can tie them. But in courtrooms they are terrible, because in courtrooms you cannot give speeches. In a courtroom you have to answer direct questions about the positive status of your belief. We destroyed them in Arkansas. On the second day of the two-week trial we had our victory party!"
-Stephen Jay Gould

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 11-13-2007 5:23 PM EighteenDelta has replied
 Message 11 by IamJoseph, posted 11-17-2007 3:18 AM EighteenDelta has not replied

  
EighteenDelta
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 11 (433942)
11-13-2007 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by AnswersInGenitals
11-13-2007 5:23 PM


Re: Just another subterfuge.
Ad hominun much? Try again, this time actually address the evidence, not me, not the presenter.
And the Miller Told His Tale: Ken Miller's Cold (Chromosomal) Fusion (Updated)
This is an article where is doing exactly what you claim he did not do in 2005, more than a year ago, predicting this fusion. Its even an ID support site. Wrong in so many details yet showing your lies for lies.
http://www.gate.net/~rwms/EvoEvidence.html
A site that has been evolving since 1999 that details a lot of the issues involved here.
-x
Edited by EighteenDelta, : added link

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 11-13-2007 5:23 PM AnswersInGenitals has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Coragyps, posted 11-13-2007 6:08 PM EighteenDelta has replied
 Message 7 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 11-14-2007 1:36 AM EighteenDelta has not replied

  
EighteenDelta
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 11 (433946)
11-13-2007 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Coragyps
11-13-2007 6:08 PM


Re: Just another subterfuge.
It doesn't really matter, but we do have enough nut-jobbers present, we don't need any poser-nut-jobbers. Let the genuinely deceived, support their delusions please. If they ignore it for long enough then we can let the devils advocates play their games.
-x

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Coragyps, posted 11-13-2007 6:08 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Archer Opteryx, posted 11-14-2007 2:00 AM EighteenDelta has replied

  
EighteenDelta
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 11 (434052)
11-14-2007 3:39 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Archer Opteryx
11-14-2007 2:00 AM


Re: genetics, genitals, crickets and virgins
Ironicly a large portion of this was mentioned in tonights episode of Nova on Kitzmiller -v- Dover. I expect it will be duly ignored by the creo crowd.
-x

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Archer Opteryx, posted 11-14-2007 2:00 AM Archer Opteryx has not replied

  
EighteenDelta
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 11 (434614)
11-16-2007 3:02 PM


Ignored, like all forms of evidence.
So this thread will be ignored, like the Otzi thread, like the sand thread, like the La Brea tar pits, like all the threads with concrete evidence. I guess it comes as no real surprise.

  
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