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Author | Topic: Creation of the English Language | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3689 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: The Brits were not alone here: france, spain, norway, the moguls, the arabs - all engaged in conquests and exploration. English won.
quote: Firstly, I'm not conversant with many dead languages, but can see those ancient languages could have been very elaborate and possessed many fine traits. We know that older languages were far more complex and sophisticated; Hebrew is a fine example here, and we can see first hand the magnificance of the OT as a 'literary' work, its expressionisms and axioms utilised by the greatest writers, far more than any other. However, these are apparently not the factors which made english the global language, even while english has a very disproprotionate and dislocated grammar, with almost no conformity of rules. Here, one can understand the problems faced by one learning english late in life - he will have to just take some things for granted, w/o rules, and learn them by heart. It appears, the world took to english because it is a true microcosm of all languages, thus its pliability. English has a cadence of europe, the M/E, asia and china; english also possesses more sounds, and with its vowels not separated; interestingly, the vowels were part of the alphabets in the hebrew, as were the numerals - it was the greeks which separated the vowels and numerlas from the hebrew, when they begat the greek alphabets from this source. Now, its back again to the original format, namely the vowels are back within the alphabets - this gives a greater flexibility and pliability. Anther reason is that the world is moving away from the complex, to a fast track communication mode. We see this in the new PC & mobile 'text' language coming into sway, indicating that even english will fade to the new, faster writing mode. Thus english represents a worldly mix, more pristine [less baggage], greater menu of sounds, and a more refined sound [less gutheral].
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3689 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Exactly. Why do you think knight is spelled that way? Because it was pronounced that way in the past, but the gutheral sound was dropped.
quote: Why - it shows how languges are made less burdersome and its ancient complexities dropped.
quote: six or seven. My point was, these vowels were originally part of the alphabets, then they got separated, and english has them back to the original format.
quote: No nonesense. Vowels were added to hebrew later, subsequent to the greeks translating of this language in 300 BCE. They also got their alphabetical writings mode from here [The Josephus Documents]. Ancient hebrew had the alphabets as numbers also, and was able to make cencus in their millions, w/o separate alphabets {the cencus of the israelites/Book of Exodus
quote: Not really. English developed using 100s of french and other european language words. Its not irrelevent, but in context to english being a true microcosm of all languages. Kismet, is an Indian word, but incorporated in english; same with pattisserie, croissaunt, castle, chutzpah, etc - these are imported words.
quote: Check yourself - I did reespond. Briton was not the only nation which conquered, so this is not the main factor.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3689 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: This is silly. Gradually with english, is not gradually as all languages do. That english has a definitive and observable development period, and this being different from the host of original, national languages which development is not definitive - is not disputable. It does not mean we have a specific date when english occured; rather, it means the period of its development and rise to a real, new language is known. We do not know the same about Greek, Indian or Hebrew - these were outside of observable history: their origins are mysterious and untraceable.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3689 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
Yes, he did post histories, and how most N. Europe languages are germain related hybrids, as well as many other european languages having inter-connections. Here, one has to look whether german is one of the original languages which original source is unknown, my premise being that languages did not originally emerge from grunts of cave people. The adaptation factor relates to their development and refinement, not their causation.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3689 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Australian abs are said to be 60K years old, thanks to some cave scratchings. But my response to this is it should be deemed as a total and absolute falsity, even a contrived and improvised one, that it should not be allowed as a professional declaration. Not untill it can be verified by a 60k Year population [where are the 50 Trillian Aboriginals?], the equivalent mental prowess [else forget about ToE] - and graduated imprints of both the former factors the past 60K years. I believe that is the way to go about it. And IMHO, these are not effected by deaths, deseases, wars, barren and dry terrains - not even as much as the Middle-east, where we have an actual historical poll to determine applicable ratios the last 6000, which displays all the excuses put forth as inapplicable and false. I say the same criteria must apply everywhere, including 30K year drawings or with china: no surrounding evidences - no go. Else science, history and logic becomes abandoned. This issue is up against a 6000 year factual period, on the same planet, under the same condition, and which which shows no gaps of silence and absence - no vacuum in the 6000 circle.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3689 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: That's why it is NOT known: we've no idea where and how the indo-euro emerged; we don't know how language appeared. IMHO, this must align with history: no history - no speech endowed life forms; and history refers to recallable names and specific characters and events - absolutely not by generic and de-constructed cave scratchings, agriculture, sticks and stones, etc. This is a vital and pivotal issue, and critical conditions must be placed before shouting Eureka! Here, I find perhaps the biggest let down by so-called evolutionists - they apply impossible and inapplicable demands on everyone else, but want to breeze through whatever they like as science and fact. It should be the reverse: the one over-turning hard facts has to apply the most strict criteria upon themselves. You can't have it both ways.
quote: I dont think that reason even applies. Whether they existed or not, the required critical crieria must apply.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3689 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: I do, and found most do not apply the required criteria, and are embellished with such unscientific terms as IT IS BELIEVED; PERHAPS; and MOST PROBABLY. Evolutionists have no problem accepting these - if it aligns with what they want to hear. If you ask, are all scientists lieing or stupid, I say that there are sufficient disputations, and sufficient academic exaggerations, which are never saistified against hard copy proof. Obviously, this debate is about a neo-scientific view which opposes established hard facts and criteria - thus the googling is not the appropriate response. As previously stated, the issue of cave marks, without surrounding and applicable evidences, or that speech cannot be verified before 6000 - are unaceptable. The premise of the criteria is false, thus the minutae details after that fact is rejected. I responded to your questions. France and Spain were conquering nations same as Briton, but lost the language war.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3689 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Don't threaten me - my breathing remains at a good steady pace. Ban me if you like, but you cannot stop responsa of participants in all forums, as you seem not to be able to do so here either. I have discussed my views with far more advanced science forums than you imagine. YOUR THOUGHTS ARE NOT MINE, NOR YOUR WAYS.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3689 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: This factor is effected by those countries being conquered by english. This is the point of english being the global language - the nations subjected to a previous language, whether by conquering or nativity - are being taken over by english. You cannot use the negative impact as a positive one: its not the case.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3689 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Sure. Take Singapore for example: 1000s of years of chinese are becoming overturned with the government mandating english education at schools. Why -because of the global and advancement propspects, and the real fear of not being in the backwaters. There is a logical and evidential reason why many countries are lacking, and which are advancing, and why. Aside from minerals and oil deposits, only english speaking nations are advancing. The service workforce is beling allocated to India, not south America or Europe!
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3689 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
There's nothing false about english taking over nations, and that those who cannot attain parity here are going backwards. Today, some nations are trying desperately to hold off the english invasion, by enforcing laws which will stop this encroachment, including not stating in english any words which are also available in the host nation's language: this is an astonishing display of my point.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3689 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: The conclusion is wrong. All that is occuring here is, that many nations which do not yet speak english, have become computerised. This sector cannot be expected to communicate in english overnight. IOW, the prowess of english has not been decreased, only the number of non-english populations have entered the net. It means that just as in all other sectors, english will dominate them as it has elsewhere.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3689 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
I did provide evidence. Why are nations like Singapore and India, mandating english in schools - and not spanish or french? And what do you think this means for the future?
You are expecting response to criteria which you have accepted; I am disputing those criterias - so there is no point in submitting evidences which are inside the rejected premise.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3689 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: This is totally warped. That english displays those factors - the observable development in our historical midst - credits my premise - not its antithesis! This is what I said - and that this factor is not seen in original languages. This was countered that european languages rose the same way - but this is also wrong, because the dialecs of europe does not answer where the original language came from, and this is not in our observable midst as with english.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3689 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: I don't think so. All that has happened in China is, chinese people have become net users, and are doing so in chinese. The factor of impact here is, gradually but surely, sectors of chinese speaking net users are secummbing to english! You have not factored the critical items here. In the short and coming future, it means we will have more chinese people speaking and communicating in english. FYI, by first hand experience, I know that China is already implementing laws to avoid this future: it has rejected shows such as AMERICAN IDOL, and is insisting chinese be spoken, and also represented in songs and music. Guess why!
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