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Author | Topic: Was there Gravity at dawn of history? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
simple  Inactive Member |
Was there gravity at the start of the universe? If so, how do we know? Was there gravity in the early days of Egypt, as we know it? The evidence seems to suggest that it is a bit of a mystery how they moved all those now heavy blocks.
From a biblical perspective, I see no reason to assume gravity existed as we now know it. (Of course there were laws in place to keep us from flying off the planet, etc, but whether identical to present gravity, I do not think we can know by science) From a science perspective, I don't think there is any proof there was either! Guess it it merely an matter of opinion then?
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simple  Inactive Member |
Yes, it is a matter of opinion regarding alternative theories.
Does this mean that it is NOT a matter of of opinion, for non alternative theories, then? What reasons do you have that gravity was the same "back in the day"when they moved the heavy blocks of the pyramids?
# What reasons do you have that gravity was any different "back in the day"? The heavy blocks of the pyramids? Is the logical probabilities of science nothing more than a matter of opinion to you? IF so, why is it not equally plausible that the Bible is itself a matter of opinion as well?
Depends on what probabilities you mean. And what the starting assumptions for those probabilities may be. Some are better than others.As for the bible, there are many opinions within the framework of accepting the book's gist, as a whole. I have found no reason to throw out the package as mere opinion, considering the impact the force behind the book has demonstrably had on millions of real people, over time. To do so, would be opinion only, and far less plausible than the bible. One reason is the time factor. Science as we know it, is only a few centuries old. The writings that were compiled into bible thousands of years.
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simple  Inactive Member |
All the sources I am reading, since as usual you provided none, seem to indicate that there is not " a bit of a mystery how they moved all those now heavy blocks." There is a wonderful field of archeology called experimental archeology, this is the one I was always most interested in. There have in fact been a number of groups that have moved stones to simulate everything from the ester island statues to the construction of Stonehenge and also the Egyptian blocks you seem to think were mysteriously moved into place when gravity was weaker.
But the starting assumption was that gravity was as it is now, and they simply looked for ways to move the stones under that framework. That can't go toward proving that gravity was any way at all. That simply means, that if they imagine enough workers, and time, and methods, etc. they can make a somewhat plausible scenario of how it woulda, coulda shoulda been done.
The ideas is plainly idiotic, if the earths gravity were reduced to a noticeable degree, the escape velocity would be reduced, resulting in our atmosphere escaping, leaving us airless and devoid of life. But I think its pretty clear from your wording
Not sure what ideas you refer to, I never really gave mine yet on what gravity may have been like, or the forces that existed, that were here at that time, instead.But I can say, it was not a tweak in the laws of the universe we have, and forces, like gravity. If that were the case, as you suggest, there would be problems. I would think that there was a different universe at work, in essence. Whether the earth was even revolving, at the time, who knows? Whether space was cold, and whether light we know existed, etc etc. The bible did talk of a lot of water up there, no? It could not exist up there now, I think we know, by the laws of physics, right? So, again, more proof from historical records, right there something seems to have been very different! There seems to have been a set of laws for the surface of the earth, where man was limited to, that was 'cursed', and another set for a heaven not that far up above man at the time. (I offer Babel, as evidence, there). There is no reason to assume that the laws in place for the cursed ground man walked on were inefficient to keep things on the ground. Neither is there reason to assume there was gravity as we know it up in the angel's quarters of the day. So, again, what can science really do to demonstrate that gravity as we know it existed homogeneously, in the universe of the day?? which means that evidence contrary to your literalism exists, you simply ignore it and refute it through bold assertions. Where the hell is the mystery?
Well, many do feel there is some mystery in some of these historical things. You simply chose to explain it away using present realities. You seem to propose, without reason, that this present state laws we literally know now, existed literally in the past. Why are you such a literalist believer in that dogma?? Wouldn't it be nice to offer some science?? Some evidence? Why ignore the glaring fact that you neither have, nor offered any evidence for your claims here, yet?? Do you really think that bold assertions alone will do?? I would think you need a little more than that.
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simple  Inactive Member |
This is a science forum, Jar. Wouldn't you be well advised to give some science for your position on the topic here??? What's wrong, can't you do that? Do you really think we need to have just your special pleading here, for your beliefs??? You do not have to use Egyptian history, or other, or bible history if you don't like. Stick to science, that would be nice. What you got??
Edited by simple, : No reason given. Edited by simple, : No reason given.
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simple  Inactive Member |
So, let me get this straight. Asking you to produce evidence for laws you claim existed in our past is akin to not believing in all evidences beyond several minutes. OK.
So, what, we just take your myths, and stories, and claims as gospel, for no reason, because the last 5 minutes really happened?? Interesting logic there. Seems kind of desperate to me, from someone that has no facts or science to bring to bear on a simple question.
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simple  Inactive Member |
....And I pointed out, that that would only apply under today's laws. You did not produce evidence for that. Of course, IF it was as it is today, we could not increase or decrease gravity. That was not an issue. The question is was there gravity at all, as we know it?
Just the fact we had an atmosphere does not clinch it in any way. What evidence is there that that atmosphere was held down by gravity? -Just because it is now?
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simple  Inactive Member |
Well, one way to determine if there was a difference, is to look at what we do know. What do we know about gravity in Egypt, precisely? Unless you had some evidence firstly for that, why expect someone else to have evidence for any different gravity force replacement??
My opinion is that, the universe was different, up until about a century after the flood of Noah. That means that very early Egypt may have been here. I know that the dates are debatable, and a lot is unknown there, but I see no reason to believe early Egypt was not here then. How different do I think it was? Totally different. I even think matter was not as we know it, but included the spiritual as well. Now, why would a physical attraction force like gravity affect things not just physical, if it did exist?? And why affect it the exact same way?? Who says there were not levels, or layers?? For example, the cursed ground of man, the spiritual heaven a little higher, and etc? Why assume that then, one laws fit all? I don't know. That is one reason it is good to look at what we actually do know.If there were levels, and different laws and matter, why not have a different balance of forces that pull or push physical things? What if, for example, there was no gravity as we know it? Or, what if there also was other forces, that balanced it out, so that there was no great weight?? What if the spiritual component of much of the matter of the day was attracted to things above? That could mean that the balance of forces of the day acting on the matter of the day resulted in being able to move large objects with little effort. Something more along those lines of a different balance, would mean that it was not all up to gravity. So we don't need to reduce or increase it. Get it? All that aside, we basically, don't know. It is starting to look a lot like the same is true of gravity in the past, or future.
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simple  Inactive Member |
Life evolved as it did, from Eden. Starting with the creation of God. Not from scratch. That is pure lard. So, you can't claim gravity was needed to do that. Ridiculous.
As for your present gravity being weaker or stronger I covered that last post. First, you need to show it existed at all.Now, if your roots shooting up thing is valid, show us a dated example from before Egypt!!! That should be interesting.
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