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Author Topic:   Problems with the Creationist Public Image
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 7 (434883)
11-17-2007 9:47 PM


Due to the recent spammer (Pharaoh205), I have come to wonder about the overall public image of Creationism. Perhaps we could discuss the main problems with the public image. So, let us talk about it in relation to the following:

  1. The methodologies used to 'spread the word (Word?)'.
  2. The activities (public and private) of the people 'spreading the word (Word?)'.
  3. The message itself, i.e., 'the word (Word?)'.
  4. News and other media coverage of Creationism-related events.

For each point, I'd like to focus on the following aspects:

  1. What effect does this problem have on Creationism's view by the public; for example, does it turn people away, draw more in, not get any attention?
  2. Why does it have that effect? Is it seen as trustworthy, dishonest, etc.?
  3. And, also, perhaps we can get some examples of the problematic points (1–4) relating to the Creationist public image.

I've been eating aspartame, so I'm having a little trouble properly formulating my thoughts, but I do hope this will get the gist of the idea across as for what I am hoping to talk about. :)

Jon

Edited by AgamemJon, : removed message to Admins.


In considering the Origin of Species, it is quite conceivable that a naturalist... might come to the conclusion that each species had not been independently created, but had descended, like varieties, from other species. - Charles Darwin On the Origin of Species
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ ____ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

En el mundo hay multitud de idiomas, y cada uno tiene su propio significado. - I Corintios 14:10
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ ____ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

A devout people with its back to the wall can be pushed deeper and deeper into hardening religious nativism, in the end even preferring national suicide to religious compromise. - Colin Wells Sailing from Byzantium
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ ____ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

[Philosophy] stands behind everything. It is the loom behind the fabric, the place you arrive when you trace the threads back to their source. It is where you question everything you think you know and seek every truth to be had. - Archer Opterix The Shape of the Fabric (Message 210)


Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by The Matt, posted 11-17-2007 10:42 PM Jon has not yet responded
 Message 4 by Doddy, posted 11-18-2007 8:03 AM Jon has not yet responded
 Message 6 by Phat, posted 11-18-2007 8:49 AM Jon has not yet responded

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 7 (434887)
11-17-2007 9:53 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
  
The Matt
Member (Idle past 3621 days)
Posts: 99
From: U.K.
Joined: 06-07-2007


Message 3 of 7 (434901)
11-17-2007 10:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
11-17-2007 9:47 PM


regardless of the viewpoint...
The best way to hurt a cause is to make a poor argument in its defence.

The sheer bulk of frankly stupid arguments used in favour of creationism do not help its image in the slightest. If its proponents seem dim witted and uneducated then the cause loses any credibility it has in the eyes of an observer.
This is a fairly universal problem however. I have seen arguments evolution/old earth that are just as poorly thought through as the worst creationist arguments and must only help to convince creationists the mainstream ideas are wrong.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 11-17-2007 9:47 PM Jon has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Doddy, posted 11-18-2007 8:05 AM The Matt has not yet responded

  
Doddy
Member (Idle past 3988 days)
Posts: 563
From: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 01-04-2007


Message 4 of 7 (434937)
11-18-2007 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
11-17-2007 9:47 PM


My AU$0.03
I'd say the most common place to find creationists teaching their messages is in church-related places, such as Sunday school, and at home (especially worrying for the home-schooled). The story is much the same for the publication of creationist literature and media - mostly church-based.

This strong association with religion and family creates as very strong emotional tie to creationism. As the belief is taught by your parents, other relatives and pastors/preachers, you feel that any questioning of this is jeopardising your relationship with your family and God. To accept evolution would therefore mean a loss of almost your whole life, so no wonder they fight so hard not to do it!

As for the effect of this on the non-creationists, it depends on their religious views - the non-religious will probably ridicule creationists about it and the religious may only see them as misguided. Likewise for the scientifically educated - the scientists will ridicule them and the non-scientists will take them as just another 'theory' (although probably not believe the creationist opinion because they are a minority).

Just a quick word about the mainstream media - they tend to try to be impartial, but this gives the creationists far more credit than they deserve because they end up on equal footing with the scientists. They also like controversy, so like to show dissenting opinions of people who disagree with mainstream views. This reinforces the lay person's perspective about it being a clash between two theories, and that the 'alternatives/controversy should be taught'. Thankfully, there are relatively few vocal creationists in Australia (most moved to the US :p ), so they get little representation on the media here.

The tactics of creationists, however, are what most affects their public image in my view, but to be honest it isn't much publicised and , like before, the effect depends on the audience's religious tendencies and scientific literacy. The video in my signature shows the tactics - appealing to children (and parents) and making emotion-based pleas to the public. As before, the religious non-scientists may see that as normal (after all, children are taught - read: inculcated - from an early age about God, so why not about creation science?). But the non-religious and/or scientists will see that as outrageous, because inculcation is always bad, and is downright appalling when it is dishonest (like emotional appeals and simplifications for children are).

I've probably missed something I wanted to say here, so I'll say it later if need be.

Edited by Doddy, : broke paragraphs up more consistantly


Help to inform the public - contribute to the EvoWiki today!

This is what we are up against. There are thousands around the world more being (home-)schooled in the same way. But the internet is far reaching! Teach evolution by joining the Evolution Education Wiki today!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 11-17-2007 9:47 PM Jon has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Phat, posted 11-18-2007 8:53 AM Doddy has not yet responded

    
Doddy
Member (Idle past 3988 days)
Posts: 563
From: Brisbane, Australia
Joined: 01-04-2007


Message 5 of 7 (434938)
11-18-2007 8:05 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by The Matt
11-17-2007 10:42 PM


Re: regardless of the viewpoint...
The Matt writes:

This is a fairly universal problem however. I have seen arguments evolution/old earth that are just as poorly thought through as the worst creationist arguments and must only help to convince creationists the mainstream ideas are wrong.

This is certainly very true, but not so much on boards like this. But if you go to a non-science forum, like a gaming forum or movie forum, and discuss evolution in the off-topic area, you will get stupid and ignorant responses from both sides.


Help to inform the public - contribute to the EvoWiki today!

This is what we are up against. There are thousands around the world more being (home-)schooled in the same way. But the internet is far reaching! Teach evolution by joining the Evolution Education Wiki today!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by The Matt, posted 11-17-2007 10:42 PM The Matt has not yet responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 12177
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 6 of 7 (434941)
11-18-2007 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
11-17-2007 9:47 PM


Did ideas and words evolve or were they initially created and defined before we learn
Jon writes:

  1. The methodologies used to 'spread the word (Word?)'.
  2. The activities (public and private) of the people 'spreading the word (Word?)'.
  3. The message itself, i.e., 'the word (Word?)'.
  4. News and other media coverage of Creationism-related events.

For each point, I'd like to focus on the following aspects:

  1. What effect does this problem have on Creationism's view by the public; for example, does it turn people away, draw more in, not get any attention?
  2. Why does it have that effect? Is it seen as trustworthy, dishonest, etc.?
  3. And, also, perhaps we can get some examples of the problematic points (1–4) relating to the Creationist public image.

Christianity and Biblical Creationism need a divorce! :eek: Personally, I am a Christian who believes that God is knowable and is ultimately the Creator (originator) of all that is. That having been said, I have no problems with the scientific and common sense teachings of Biological Evolution, Archeology, History, and *ahem* Linguistics! :)

In my belief, God foreknew the unfolding of every inanimate process as well as every biological, cosmological, and human evolutionary process that ever occurred and that is even now still occurring. (The foreknowledge argument is not part of this topic necessarily, but is an ongoing discussion! ;) )

My critics will disagree with me for advocating certain Biblical teaching. In that regard, I will assert that Psychology has a long ways to go as to being the pre-eminant method of child-rearing.
This type of teaching is controversial and will undoubtedly draw criticism from many, but I see no problem with utilizing some of the precepts contained within.

The public image of televised and radio broadcasted Christianity is tarnished beyond all useful recognition. That being said, I don't believe that it is all worthless. (My critics assert that it is 99.9999999999999 % worthless, but they also tend to frame their belief concept into that which is verifiable through logic, reason, and reality.) In contrast, I believe that faith is, occasionally, not logical based on human nature and the carnal tendencies of the average person.

Biblical Literalism is, in my opinion, a stumbling block that keeps many Christians objects of ridicule and out of touch with reality. To teach any child that the Flood literally happened or that the Earth was created in 7 days is damaging to them, in my opinion.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 11-17-2007 9:47 PM Jon has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12177
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 7 of 7 (434944)
11-18-2007 8:53 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Doddy
11-18-2007 8:03 AM


Re: My AU$0.03
Doddy writes:

This strong association with religion and family creates as very strong emotional tie to creationism. As the belief is taught by your parents, other relatives and pastors/preachers, you feel that any questioning of this is jeopardizing your relationship with your family and God. To accept evolution would therefore mean a loss of almost your whole life, so no wonder they fight so hard not to do it!

Thats why I believe that Christianity and Biblical Creationism need a divorce! ;)

The issue that is left is the idea of how we should sociologically and psychologically impart our wisdom (or awareness of lack thereof) to our future generations.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Doddy, posted 11-18-2007 8:03 AM Doddy has not yet responded

  
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