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Author Topic:   Looking for the Super-Genome. -And it ain't found
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 47 of 66 (436774)
11-27-2007 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by ChibiQ
11-27-2007 1:43 PM


Re: No evidence from you yet, jar. Please provide
What is this example supposed to demonstrate?
The Duke and the Tsar had the same mitochondrial DNA down to having the same extra form inherited from their mother. Is your suggestion that Eve had multiple mtDNA types present in her germ cells so that her offspring were highly heterogeneous? Are you suggesting this persisted? If so then that is exactly the sort of super-genetic claim that Jar is looking for evidence of.
The example of cases of heteroplasmic mitochondrial inheritance certainly aren't a sufficient demonstration.
If this is supposed to be evidence of any sort of an accelerated mutation rate in mtDNA I am baffled since it has nothing to do with mutation rates since the mutation is supposed to have been preexisting in the mother.
So what has your example got to do with mtDNA mutation rates? In addition the occurrence of a single point mutation is not sufficient to establish a mutation rate.
TTFN,
WK

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 Message 46 by ChibiQ, posted 11-27-2007 1:43 PM ChibiQ has not replied

  
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 50 of 66 (436933)
11-28-2007 6:37 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Hyroglyphx
11-28-2007 12:22 AM


Origin of the 'super genome'
The idea was principally Faith's although I'm not sure if she coined the term and I doubt the idea was original with her. Randman occasionally put forward similar ideas and John Davison's prescribed evolutionary hypothesis basically relies on the existence of a super genome as well.
It isn't necessarily a very specific term as it can encompass a number of concepts. The simplest form would be consistent with the idea of what we think of as evolution, or microevolution within kinds for the creationists, as the ongoing degradation of several original created genomes. This original genome would need to be much larger than a modern genome as it would have many redundant sequences which serve to provide much of the genetic diversity we see today in modern species.
So the simplest form would be a super genome which had sufficient genetic material to produce all the geneti diversity we see today.
Davison's formulation was perhaps even stranger. As you may recall he believed in the process of evolution in terms of the descent from possibly several distinct common ancestors for different high order clades, nt low enough to be considered kinds though, but denied that the evolutionary process was still continuing or that it operated in line with the thinking of current evolutionary science. Instead he proposed that evolution was driven by changes in chromosomal organisation occuring during a process he called semi meiosis. The restructuring ocurring during semi meiosis changed the genome so as to allow the expression of previously latent genetic elements and leading to the saltationary emergence of a new species or significant new trait.
Randman's formulation was hard to pin down but seemed to be more concerned with the effect of quantum and internal features relating to DNA driving genetic changes along specific routes, rather than actually requiring a larger genome.
The main feature of all these types of 'super genome' is that they use front loading, of whatever form, to explain the current genetic diversity we see, whether it is from changes within created kinds or from evolution of everything from a common ancestor.
Faith and John Davison's ideas call for a number of genetic factors and effects which are entirely theroretical and which have no evidence to support them as far as I know. It is hard to think of a way to test Randman's formulation since in many ways it is simply a quantum mechanical version of 'god did it' where we cannot discriminate between the stochastic occurrences of mutation from natural causes and specific mutations directed by some mysterious force. Presumably these are the sort of signals which a science of ~ID ought to be able to detect.
Does this clear the idea up a little?
TTFN,
WK
Edited by Wounded King, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-28-2007 12:22 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Hyroglyphx, posted 11-28-2007 5:35 PM Wounded King has not replied
 Message 59 by mobioevo, posted 12-15-2007 5:45 PM Wounded King has replied

  
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 64 of 66 (441047)
12-16-2007 4:26 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by mobioevo
12-15-2007 5:45 PM


Re: What is a super-genome
My question is why do creationists refuse the idea of genetic information being created?
Because they think that would support their position that evolution of novel characteristics cannot occur.
Do they only want some supernatural power to create all genetic information?
Certainly, although they might allow that human intelligences could create genetic information.
TTFN,
WK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by mobioevo, posted 12-15-2007 5:45 PM mobioevo has not replied

  
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