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Author Topic:   Where/how do believers draw the line and why?
Johny
Junior Member (Idle past 3550 days)
Posts: 1
Joined: 09-21-2007


Message 76 of 88 (434491)
11-16-2007 1:12 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by Spektical
11-15-2007 10:54 PM


Re: Is there a point?
quote:
The world has been torn asunder all because people still believe in literature that was written thousands of years ago.

Well, political ideologies have led to many wars and killing of innocent people. Does this mean we should completely do away with politics(democracy, communism, authoritarianism etc)?

You are under a misconception that religion is the cause of all strife in the world we see. its quite to easy to think like that with christian fundamentalism in the US and islamic fundamentalism in the Middle east. But, IMO, even if there are no different religions or sects, man will always find some reason to kill someone else.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Spektical, posted 11-15-2007 10:54 PM Spektical has not yet responded

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6258
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 77 of 88 (434501)
11-16-2007 2:26 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Spektical
11-14-2007 3:16 PM


Re: Literal or Not
Hi Spektical,

Let me take a stab at this.

The question is still unaswered....why do religious people take some stories literally and some not? What makes them so sure about their decision? and if these stories are open to interpretation because of individuality, then why universalize them into beliefs?

1. Why do religious people take some stories literally and some not?

First there are over 33,000 different religions in the world.

A religion is a social institution that includes a set of common beliefs and practices generally held by a group of people http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

That means there are a lot of people with different ideas.
Most have preconceived ideas about what they believe and therefore when they read a story they interpret it in the way that it supports what they believe. So if a literal rendering fits their belief that is what it is. If a non literal rendering fits their belief that is what it is.

2. What makes them so sure about their decision?
Because it is what they want to believe. Therefore it is correct.

3. if these stories are open to interpretation because of individuality,

All stories are open to individual interpretation.

4. then why universalize them into beliefs?
Because without beliefs their can be no religion.


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Spektical, posted 11-14-2007 3:16 PM Spektical has not yet responded

    
Archer Opteryx
Member (Idle past 1884 days)
Posts: 1811
From: East Asia
Joined: 08-16-2006


Message 78 of 88 (434512)
11-16-2007 4:39 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by ringo
11-15-2007 11:20 AM


Re: Just So Stories
Spek:
The story of Babel is a very profound one to me because it conveys how wonderfully creative yet trapped the human race was/is. It shows that if we came together alot of things can be accomplished.

Ringo:
You're ignoring the point of the story: that God prevented that accomplishment from happening.

As I read this, I can see the tallest completed building in the world outside my window.

I'm not saying that has any relevance in this debate. I just thought it was funny.


Archer

All species are transitional.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by ringo, posted 11-15-2007 11:20 AM ringo has not yet responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 79 of 88 (434550)
11-16-2007 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by Spektical
11-15-2007 6:21 PM


Re: Is there a point?
you laugh.....

You're ridiculous.

quote:
I want them all to stop lying to themselves and killing people in the process.

I don't lie to myself and I don't kill people. Basically, you're just exposing your bigotry. Are you racist too?


have you seen the Jesus Camp documentary?

No.

Do you laugh at the people who are regularly brainwashed to commit suicide in the name of their religion who kill innocent people?

No.

Now, troll, why do you ignore my honest answer to the OP, Message 46?


Also, you're just making stuff up and not substantiating things:

From message 53:

quote:
The unitarian sect of Christianity believes that Jesus was a prophet but not God himself. The rest of Christianity believes that Jesus is in fact God. This dispute of ideas is a prime example of the OP.

From the OP:

quote:
My contention is the biblical writings are so open to interpretation that it has caused the many sects within the primary faith itself.

So you think that the openness of the interpretations of the bible are the cause of the formation of the Unitarian sect?

quote:
where do believers make the distinction between what parts of the bible to take literally and what parts not to, and why?

You also seem to think this is an issue with literal vs non-literal.

So then, what are the passages that, depending on their literal-ness, caused the formation of the Unitarian sect?

If you can't bring forth evidence of your assertion, and are, in fact, just making shit up, then, like it has been said too many times on this thread:

WHAT IS THE POINT?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Spektical, posted 11-15-2007 6:21 PM Spektical has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Spektical, posted 11-16-2007 10:12 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
Spektical
Member (Idle past 4263 days)
Posts: 119
Joined: 10-16-2007


Message 80 of 88 (434552)
11-16-2007 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by New Cat's Eye
11-16-2007 10:08 AM


Re: Is there a point?
The point, RETARD, is that religion sucks balls and so do you along with it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-16-2007 10:08 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-16-2007 10:23 AM Spektical has not yet responded
 Message 82 by AdminWounded, posted 11-16-2007 10:25 AM Spektical has not yet responded
 Message 84 by AdminNosy, posted 11-16-2007 10:33 AM Spektical has not yet responded

    
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 81 of 88 (434554)
11-16-2007 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Spektical
11-16-2007 10:12 AM


Re: Is there a point?
The point, RETARD, is that religion sucks balls and so do you along with it.

:laugh:

So the whole point was to express your opinion that you don't like religion. Whoopty-fuckin-doo. You really didn't have a point the whole time, did you troll?

Why the attempt to make assertions and dress them up, albeit miserably, like an argument if you weren't simply trolling?

If you weren't trolling, then you failed miserably at properly participating in a thread without people thinking that your an idiot without a point.

But whatever, just have fun with it.

But at least I won the trolling game by making you personally attack me first.

C.S. = 1

Spektical = 0

You lose.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Spektical, posted 11-16-2007 10:12 AM Spektical has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by AdminWounded, posted 11-16-2007 10:27 AM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
AdminWounded
Inactive Member


Message 82 of 88 (434555)
11-16-2007 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Spektical
11-16-2007 10:12 AM


Re: Is there a point?
This really isn't the sort of level of debate we strive for here on EvC.

Please control yourself or expect to be suspended.

TTFN,

AW


This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Spektical, posted 11-16-2007 10:12 AM Spektical has not yet responded

  
AdminWounded
Inactive Member


Message 83 of 88 (434556)
11-16-2007 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by New Cat's Eye
11-16-2007 10:23 AM


Re: Is there a point?
We also frown on people intentionally inciting others to trollish behaviour.

Now behave you kids!!!

TTFN,

AW


This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by New Cat's Eye, posted 11-16-2007 10:23 AM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 84 of 88 (434557)
11-16-2007 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Spektical
11-16-2007 10:12 AM


Cool it!
Ok, we seem to be getting a bit nasty. I'm closing this for a couple of hours (if I forget someone else please open it).

I'm also suspending Spektical for 4 hours for being the nastiest.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Spektical, posted 11-16-2007 10:12 AM Spektical has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31485
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 85 of 88 (434595)
11-16-2007 12:56 PM


Okay, taking a stab at what may be the point.
I kinda get a hint, just a hint mind you, that Spektical might, just might mind you, have a problem, just a small problem mind you, with the concept, just a limited concept mind you, of his personal vision, just a blurry vision mind you, of some religions, just some specific religions mind you, or maybe the behaviors, just a few of the behaviors mind you, of those religions.

He seems to think that what was portrayed in the documentary "Jesus Camp" is wrong.

I happen to agree.

He seems to think suicide bombers are wrong.

Well, maybe. But that might make an interesting thread if he could start one.

He seems to think worrying about salvation is not a good thing.

I tend to think it is a total waste of time and effort, but can see no reason someone else might not want to spend their life worrying about the next life. I certainly don't see anyway that someone worrying about their salvation can create much of a problem, even for Spektical.

So what exactly is his point?

Let me propose a hypothetical.

Suppose tomorrow morning, when the sun rose over Palestine, just the geographic area, not some city-state, everyone awoke to find they had become Atheists.

Just what would have changed?

Would the people living in the communes and settlements suddenly be willing to pack up and leave the homes they had built?

Would the Knesset suddenly be willing to turn control and authority over to the Palestinian Authority?

Folk, issues like the middle east or Palestine are NOT religious. It is a matter of power and who holds it, of money and who has it, of resources and who gets to exploit them.

Of course there are examples of misuse of religion, but that is true of most anything, nationalism, baseball, food, politics, motherhood.

I consider myself a religious person.

But the things that Spektical mentioned were also pretty much things where I would agree with him. The issue of suicide bombers is one that would need some discussion since I can easily see situations where the act would be justified, but in all, not too many areas of disagreement.

So once again, Spektical, what is you point?


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by bluescat48, posted 11-16-2007 7:31 PM jar has responded

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 2476 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 86 of 88 (434669)
11-16-2007 7:31 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by jar
11-16-2007 12:56 PM


Re: Okay, taking a stab at what may be the point.
He seems to think suicide bombers are wrong.

OK, when would they not be wrong?¿


This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by jar, posted 11-16-2007 12:56 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by jar, posted 11-16-2007 7:47 PM bluescat48 has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 31485
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 87 of 88 (434674)
11-16-2007 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by bluescat48
11-16-2007 7:31 PM


Re: Okay, taking a stab at what may be the point.
Not really what I think can be included in this thread.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by bluescat48, posted 11-16-2007 7:31 PM bluescat48 has not yet responded

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 206 days)
Posts: 5746
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 88 of 88 (438167)
12-03-2007 8:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Spektical
11-05-2007 1:42 PM


where do believers make the distinction between what parts of the bible to take literally and what parts not to, and why?

The line moves.
My basis for belief, is one of love.

There is enough information, and thousands of years of study on the bible, to make you very confused. It's all subjective at best.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Spektical, posted 11-05-2007 1:42 PM Spektical has not yet responded

  
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