Pascal's Wager - Any Way to Live a Life

As has been touched on by several posters, the Wager is invalid right from the start since it is based on the idea that a person has the ability to consciously CHOOSE to believe things, and of course that is impossible.

riVeRraT,re: “You cannot just simply ”believe in God’ and not loose nothing, or gain nothing. There is much to lose, and much to gain, from believing...”Is there any implication in that comment that you think that a person has the ability to consciously CHOOSE to believe that someone exists or that a certain proposition is true?

riVeRraT,Is that a yes or no?

riVeRraT,re: “What does that sound like to you?”I really don’t know what to make of it with regard to an ability to consciously CHOOSE to believe things. I went back and reread your message #68 where you made the initial comment that “salvation...is a decision that you make every second of every day”. I just don’t see the applicability of that response to my question. Could you please explain?

riVeRraT,re: “What does the ability to choose, have to do with the OP?”It has everything to do with it. The OP asked: “...is employing Pascal's Wager in your approach to life an authentic and intellectually honest way to live!?” In order to employ the Wager, a person would have to have the ability to consciously CHOOSE to believe things and since that is not possible, the Wager is invalid right from the start.

kuresu,re: “Mind giving the evidence showing that choosing to believe is impossible?”Well, I have never been able to consciously CHOOSE any of the beliefs that I have, and no one that I have asked has been able to do it either. However, I would really like to have that ability. If you are implying that you can consciously CHOOSE to believe things, I wonder if you might explain how you do it. What do you do at the last moment to instantly change your one state of belief to another? What is it that you do that would allow you to say, “OK, at this moment I have a lack of belief that ”x’ exists or is true, but I CHOOSE to believe that ”x’ exists or is true and now instantly at this new moment I do believe that ”x’ exists or is true?Maybe you could use something like leprechauns to demonstrate your technique. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, a leprechaun is “a fairy peculiar to Ireland, who appeared in the form of an old man of minute stature, wearing a cocked hat and a leather apron.” So, assuming that you don’t already have a belief in them, how about right now, while you are reading this, CHOOSE to believe - be convinced without a doubt - that they exist. Now that you believe in leprechauns, my question is, how did you do it? How did you make the instantaneous transition from lack of belief to belief?

jar,re: “...between those two extremes is a whole series of steps with variations of levels of belief or disbelief.”You can’t have different levels of belief. Either you believe something or you don’t.re: “All of those steps are the result of examining something you consider as evidence...”If beliefs can be obtained by simply CHOOSING to have them, then evidence is not necessary - - prudent in some cases, perhaps, but not necessary.

kuresu,re: “...so your evidence rests on your own personal disbelief that belief can be changed.”I also said that no one that I have ever asked to demonstrate their stated ability to consciously CHOOSE to believe things has complied with that request.re: “Further, you require the belief to change instantly. “It has to change instantly. You can’t believe that something doesn’t exist and at the same time believe that that same something does exist. There has to be an instant when the one state of mind changes to the other.re: “What about theists who become atheists, or atheists who become theists? What about creos who will believe in any cockamanie idea so long as it supports (in their minds) their god(s)?”
”I’m afraid I don’t understand your point. BTW, what are “creos”?re: “How about showing some psychiatric studies showing that one cannot choose to believe in something?”Were you able to consciously CHOOSE to believe that leprechauns exist as I asked? If not, that is one study that shows that you can’t simply consciously CHOOSE to believe things. That is evidence.

Although my position is crystal clear to me, it’s obvious that I am not articulate enough to present it so that you can see the reasonableness of it. And if you are correct in your position, it’s obvious that I am not smart enough to understand how that position is anything other than incorrect. I guess we’ll just have to leave it at that.

The Agnostic,re: “I think Pascal's Wager fails for three reasons:1) Humans cannot choose what they believe...”It’s been 27 days since you posted that comment and no one has disagreed with you. Apparently they have come to see that that is the truth of the issue.

The Agnostic,re: “I think Pascal's Wager fails for three reasons: 1) Humans cannot choose what they believe...”It’s now been 58 days since you posted that comment and still no one has disagreed with you. Apparently everyone continues to see that that is the truth of the issue.

The Agnostic,re: “I think Pascal's Wager fails for three reasons: 1) Humans cannot choose what they believe...”It’s now been 185 days since you posted that comment and still no one has disagreed with you. Apparently everyone continues to see that that is the truth of the issue.

Duplicate post.Edited by rstrats, : No reason given.

The Agnostic,re: “I think Pascal's Wager fails for three reasons: 1) Humans cannot choose what they believe...”It’s now been 232 days since you posted that comment and still no one has disagreed with you. Apparently everyone continues to see that that is the truth of the issue.

jaywill,re: " A person convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still."Why isn't that a contradictory statement?