Poor Satan, so misunderstood.

jaywill writes:

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Yes Satan appeared in the form of a serpent in the garden.

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No, he didn't. The serpent in the garden was precisely that: A serpent. Nothing more, nothing less. The Bible directly calls the serpent a beast. The punishment of the serpent is to have its legs removed and to have his offspring forever crushed under the heel of humans.Those are things you to do animals, not supernatural beings.There was no devil in the garden.

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Especially when the serpent challenged them to disobey God

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No, he didn't. The serpent never tells Eve to eat from the tree. He simply points out that god is not being truthful regarding it. Unlike the direct statement of god, that eating from the tree would cause a physical death before the sun set on the day that one ate of it, instead the eater would become as gods, knowing good and evil.And the serpent was right: Adam and Eve, of their own volition, eat from the tree and become as gods, knowing good and evil.

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Greatest I am writes:

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Job shows that God is in control of Satan at all times.

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Which means that Satan is not evil but is an instrument of god.Has it not occurred to you that the "Satan" of Job is not the same persona as the devil that appears in the New Testament?There is no such thing as the devil in Judaism. That would defy the purpose of the monotheism: One god, only one, everything comes from him. To have a devil would mean there are two and there is only one. To have a son would mean there are two and there is only one.

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

jaywill writes:

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The New Testament says that Adam the man, was not deceived

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Why are you forcing a Christian interpretation on a Jewish text?Genesis was written by Jews for Jews and can only be understood in a Jewish context.

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

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No, he didn't. The serpent in the garden was precisely that: A serpent. Nothing more, nothing less. The Bible directly calls the serpent a beast. The punishment of the serpent is to have its legs removed and to have his offspring forever crushed under the heel of humans.

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I too agree with all the factors of your post here. That the serpent has his legs confiscated, means he onced had legs and did not crawl - which says this garden was not in this physical realm. It is further affirmed by the expulsion and barring of re-entry. ironically, a talking serpent becomes vindicated here, or not absusive of logic in the narratives.It also alludes to why we have no knowledge of anything of a pre-physical realm or of the origins of anything whatsoever. This is not a lacking of human intelligence and prowess: the gates are barred at the present time. We subsequently know there must be a purpose for creation [nothing is superfluous] - yet we know not what that purpose is. This is given as a reason to await a Messiah or further revelation.

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There is no such thing as the devil in Judaism. That would defy the purpose of the monotheism: One god, only one, everything comes from him. To have a devil would mean there are two and there is only one. To have a son would mean there are two and there is only one.

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Absolutely, though we don't blame those following their belief sincerely. Monotheism is a scientific and logical advocation, and an extremely difficult premise to adopt in real life - specially for European and asian peoples. It has encountered resentment throughout history - from Canaan, ancient Egypt, Babylon, Hellenism, Rome and Christianity. An invisable, undefinable and unfathomable God is demanding, but once inculcated - can never be overturned. There is a love/hate thing with Monotheism - all recognise its truth, while being attached to their core beliefs and traditions as well.Monotheism is a pre-judaic law, made to Noah, and applies to all mankind. I believe that all humans are monotheistic, when push comes to shove. The numerous dieties followed in Hinuism, I believe represents agents or transit points, and they ultimately believe the buck stops with Monotheism. I also see the greatest proof of a Creator resting in athiesm - specifically atheist science: this is already inclining towards alternate premises, namely Singularity, BBT, I.D., etc. Ultimately...it points to a common denominator, exactly as per the OT. The only factor causing a rejection is the Creator syndrome, while all the surrounding stats and specs are alligned.The answer to all these issues are also vested in the OT: there can be no resolvement if an enlightened one comes - or returns - unless this is by the Creator - openly [not shrowded], simultainiously to all 6B humans [as opposed the 3M at Sinai]. However, such a revelation would end the premise of faith, and would obviously call for a new ophase in creation: faith is meritless with revealed, open knowledge.

Was Adam a Jew ? I thought he was the first created man not just the first created Jew. What happened to God's promise that through Abraham's seed all the nations of the earth would be blessed?Did God say only the Jews would be blessed through Abraham?This book is to the Jews yet also to all mankind.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

Okay. It amounts to the same thing. The serpent was somehow utilized by the spiritual advasary of God, the devil. The exact mechanics of this I don't claim to fully understand. Nor do I think it is necesssary to.The old serpent was the devil - " ... The ancient serpent; he who is called the Devil and Satan, he who deceives the whole inhabited earth" (Rev. 12:9) On one level that may be true. I am not sure. But the Bible is a deeply profound and spiritual revelation. And the fuller significance is that God incarnate, as the seed of the woman born of a virgin, would crush the Devil in His death and resurrection.The Devil would bruise the heel of the Son of God in having Him crucified. But the Son of God would crush the Devil in His dying on the cross. In God creating the universe He created things to help us understand the nature of our existence and our relationship with the Creator. The natural would is full of hints, pointers, reminders and lessons revealing something about man's relationship with God.He has not only given His divine word for our enlightenment. He has provided the creation to tell us of things divine. The Bible calls the Devil the ancient serpent in Revelation 12:9. This indicates that the old serpent in the garden was Satan.Concerning Eve being "challenged" you wrote: For what purpose? Of course that she would take of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Crossing that line did two things:1.) She stepped out from under the authority of God and under the authority of Satan - a transgression.2.) She got the fruit into her body. This poisoned mankind. The nature of this poison I do not claim to fully understand. But I am certain that it somehow brought human beings into a oneness with the evil nature of Satan. Man was Satanified. He was polluted. A foreign element entered into man's body and into his being and joined man to the enemy of God.Latter the Apostle Paul writes : "Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death?" (Rom. 7:24)Paul writes again: "For I know that in me, that is in my flesh, nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but to work out the good is not." (Rom. 7:18)It is therefore a matter of something dwelling in the members of man's fallen body. This poison traces back to the eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil."I find then the law with me who wills to do the good, that is, the evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God according to the inner man,

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BUT I SEE A DIFFERENT LAW IN MY MEMBERS (my emphasis) warring against the law of my mind and making me a captive to the law of sin which is in my members." (Rom. 7:22-24)This different law dwelling in the members of man's fallen body traces back to Eve's eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Eating of the tree somehow joined man to something living and dwelling in man's members which wars against his good intentions.We are also told that the devil is the spirit operating in the fallen sinners:" ... [Satan] the ruler of the authority of the air, ... the spirit which is now operating in the sons of disobedience; among whom we also all conducted outselves once in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the thoughts, and were by nature the children of wrath" (Eph. 2:2-3)Something got into man's body and transmuted it into what the Bible calls "the flesh". Something like a parasite has attached itself to man causing him to not be able to do the good that he knows or resist the evil that he knows.We have the knowledge of good and evil. We do not have the life or the power to fully carry out the good or resist the evil. We are very proud of the knowledge. But we are utterly guilty as transgressors before God. He may "know" good but because man is now under the authority of Satan he cannot live the good that he knows. He may know evil. But because he is now a slave of Satan the evil one man cannot resist the evil that he knows.He is very proud of the knowledge of good and evil. But he does not have the life to express God. Man expresses Satan and is a transgressor worthy to follow Satan into the destiny reserved by God for Satan, the eternal damnation:"Go away from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matt. 25:41)The eternal punishment was prepared for the devil and his angels. Now Adam and Eve have caused the human race to be joined to the devil and his angels as co-rebels. Without the salvation of Christ they will follow their leader Satan into the eternal damnation.The terrible irony is that God wanted man to be like God. But not i that way of rebellion. He created man in the image of God. Why? So man would be like God. He gave man dominion over the creation. Why? So man would be like God. He put man before the tree of life. Why? Most certainly that man would take into himself the uncreated and eternal life of The Divine Being to - be like God.Man was created to be joined to God. Satan ran ahead of God, deceived and challenged man and as a result man was instead joined to Satan.Christ is the man that God intended. Christ is the man in union and mingling with God. Christ is the man of divine life. And this is why He is called "the second man" and "the last Adam". The most effective lie is always mixed with a little truth.They knew good and evil. But they could not live the good nor resist the evil. This is the history of the human race. We are very proud of our knowledge of right and wrong. The life power to live as we know we should live is not with us. In Romans, Sin dwelling in man is spoken of as a evil personage. It deceives, seizes opportunity, makes captive, kills, rebells on general principle deliberately, operates, works out death, becomes exceedingly sinful, dwells in man's members, compels and forces man to do what he hates, forces man to not be able to do what man delights in as morally right.All this traces back to Adam and Eve eating the tree of the knowledge of good and evil at the persuasion of the old serpent Satan the Devil.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

RrhainI believe that the name Satan is only a catch all name for evil thoughts and notions and deeds.Like God is a title, so is Satan.Placing him under God is not the same as elevating him to the same level as God.God defines evil, not a Satan.Regards
DL

jaywill"Christ came and did destroy the works of the devil especially within them who believe and trust themselves to Jesus:"Evil exists in all men. Satan is alive and well.
Jesus was not a destroyer, He was a builder.To think that Jesus took over our responsibility for sin and forgave them all is false.
To think that His way is the only way is also false.
There are many roads to Heaven if God maintains His ability to create Perfect souls.Regards
DL

Strange that some think that God created Satan just to have Jesus-God, kill him later.
Not the way God usually works. Especially for an angel that has worked harder for God than other angels. Satan should be glorified not ostracized for His ability to do God's bidding.Some also would destroy the tree of good and evil and make it impossible for us to be like God's, knowing good and evil.Man did not fall but with the help and guidance of Eve jumped into the job given to us by God in the beginning.Reproduce and learn of good and evil.We do both well throughout history and this is why God allows things to continue in their proper way. If it were not then He would change things.The world is Perfect as are all of God's works. Let us recognize it.Regards
DL

That's the gist of your error. You put Satan ahead of God.Man was "joined to Satan" by the gift of free will - the ability to question and decide for ourselves. That's what all the stories of Satan are about - good and bad decisions.That was the way God wanted it. Any other (mis)understanding diminishes God.

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Disclaimer: The above statement is without a doubt, the most LUDICROUS, IDIOTIC AND PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WILLFUL STUPIDITY, THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN OR HEARD.

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This book is to the Jews yet also to all mankind.

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This is true, and the text itself says so, and jews are nothing more than the postman with funny looking garb. The OT addresses all mankind, prior to any religious group or belief system emerged, and gives laws pertaining to various sectors and groupings of humanity [women only, parents, strangers, laws for animals, the environment, and the judiciary institutions], including some ritual laws to jews prefixed 'Unto you'.A mysterious thing here is, the OT is also called the Law Book ['This book of laws'], and the world has not accepted any laws from any other sector to date. It is amazing considering the time factor and that numerous religions emerged thereafter. This is perhaps the best proof this was not from the mind of Jews or any known group of peoples. It vindicates one of its bold and daring law, NOT TO ADD OR SUBTRACT ANYTHING FROM THIS BOOK OF LAWS. Which human would risk such a demand, with the injunction of terms such as 'forever' in some of its laws - it would be subject to assured failure?

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The old serpent was the devil - " ... The ancient serpent; he who is called the Devil and Satan, he who deceives the whole inhabited earth" (Rev. 12:9)

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The OT does not contain any reference to devil, satan or hell: none of these words appear. It is a fundamental variance from other scriptures, despite that there are a host of rituals and miracles here. The monotheistic premise is very exacting in the OT, and is a guide to all of its narratives' understanding: it does not allow any opposition or equivalence in any form whatsoever, while declaring laws of equality and justice for all. It is also the fulcrum reason for the seperation of christianity from its mother religion.

Satan may be alive. But he is not "well". He has a migrain headache which is killing him. Everytime a Christian turns over a little more of his soul to the sanctification of Christ that headache grows more intense.Evil does exist in everyman, including myself. But we who turn ourselves over to the saturation process of the Holy Spirit more than conquer. We are victorious in the corporate Body of Christ over the devil.We intend to put him into the lake of fire with the help of the angels and by the power of God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Jesus is many things. And we should not limit Jesus to just certain aspects of what He is. I totally agree that Jesus is a builder. But He is also a destroyer. In order to build He must destroy.Here it says He came to "destroy" the works of the devil. So how can you say that He is not a destroyer? He cannot build us into His corporate Body unless He destroys in our lives the works of the devil. So with what sentimental naivety do you deny that Christ is a destroyer?Here Jesus is one breaking down a wall. That is to destroy a wall of separation between the Jews and the Gentiles: In order for Christ to build up the one new man He must destroy the middle wall of partition. So why do you want to rob Him of this function by saying He is not a destroyer?Do you know that the growth of our bones requires both destruction and building? How much more in spiritual growth there is the need for catabolism and anabolism.Paul tells us that the old man has been crucified with Christ. Is that not a destruction at the hands of Jesus? Some destruction of the old independent, self centered, Adamic soul life must be put to death in order that we may be freed from the slavery to sin. So I rejoice totally that my old man has been destroyed by Christ in His death on the cross.What are you waiting for, some sort of self improvement? You cannot be self improved. You need to be crucified with Christ and raised with Him.Do you think the act of baptism does not point to destruction in any way? You cannot rise to walk in newness of life unless you are buried with Christ. And for that He must destroy through His death on your behalf. We desperately need the devil destroying death of Christ as well as the life imparting resurrection of Christ. To build He must destroy. [qs] ... He also Himself in like manner partook of the same that He might destroy the him who has the might of death, the devil." (Heb. 2:14)Christ and God even are said to destroy the wisdom of the wise. He must destroy the fallen worldly wisdom which blocks the way of revelation: This is a liberating destruction you know? This is a destroying that sets the captives free, as a hymn says:"My chains fell off.
My heart was free.
I rose, went forth
And followed thee." I don't know what you'er talking about here. This sounds like a debate in search of an opponent.Nothing I said absolved man of responsibility. We have a responsibility to have "the obedience of faith" (Rom. 1:5)"The obedience of faith" implies a great deal of responsibility on man's part. We are responsible to repent of our unbelief in Christ and His work and receive Him as our life impowerment and life supply.Who said "no more responsibility?" He Himself is the only way to fullfil God's eternal purpose. There is no other way except God mingled with man. And Christ is the Head of that operation of God united and mingled with man.Christ is the Head of the universal incorporation of the divine with the human. There is no other way. And there is no other way to the Father except through the Christ:If any one comes to the Father it will only have been through Christ. I did not say through Christianity. I said through Christ, the Person, the living Son. The Bible does not teach that the eternal destiny of the saved is heaven. The Bible teaches that the destiny of the saved is to be brought into God Himself. This corporate entity of man mingled with with God is called New Jerusalem.Its gates face the east, west, the north and the south. Her gates are open to all the world. And the multitude of the saved come from every tribe and people and tongue and nation. God is definite. He is large and He is accomodating. But He is definite. And we are called to the obedience of faith in Christ.

Reference to Satan in the Old Testament, in the oldest book of the Old Testament, Job:"Then one day, when the sons of God came to present themselves before Jehovah, Satan also came among them" (Job 1:6; See also Job 2:1; 1 Chronicles 21:1; Zechariah 3:1))Please don't tell me that that is not the devil but God's friendly neighberhood prosecutor. Who started that foolishness on the Internet anyway? No it isn't. The behavior of the slanderer who is of some kind of angelic nature is the same throughout all references to the serpent, or Satan (in Job or Zechariah).I believe Revelation 12 that says that the old serpent was the Devil and Satan, the one who deceives the whole inhabited earth. OF course with some types of people he likes to conceal his identity behind excuses that the Old Testament didn't talk about Satan.He's a big liar you know. I am not sure how the existence of the Devil was denial of monotheism. In fact it very much implies the opposite.The Day Star wanted to be like "the Most High." The Most High surely indicates ONE God. And Satan rebelled against Him.You need to stop for a minute and contemplate the personality and power of a being who could dare to revolt against God to overthrow God. Appearing or using a serpent would be nothing to him.I sometimes wonder how the Egyptian magicians were able to imitate God's miracle and turn their staffs into serpents. This they did by their dark magic arts.Anyway, the little snake is going to the lake of fire to be punished forever. And we of the children of God are going to take a part in putting him there. I think I'll limit myself to something like a topic at a time. Right now I am in the process of exposing Satan and discussing what he did and how he is being dealt with.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.