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Author
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Topic: So Just How is ID's Supernatural-based Science Supposed to Work? (SUM. MESSAGES ONLY)
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 91 of 396 (439410)
12-08-2007 6:27 PM
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Reply to: Message 78 by dwise1
12-08-2007 2:11 AM
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dwise1 writes: First, it is absolutely ridiculous to include "questions pertaining to the accuracy of the ancient Biblical record relative to archeology" in your list, since archeology has indeed been actively pursued at biblical sites and, I'm sure, is still being pursued. Second, can you see what you wrote? You're taking issue with science not pursuing questions leading to attempting to research the supernatural. Hello? Just how do you expect science to deal with the supernatural? You just brought us right back to the fundamental question I asked in the OP and that we have repeatedly posed to IDists and which those same IDists have dodged: just how exactly does ID expect science to test supernaturalistic explanations? Since you want science to incorporate the supernatural, you must be prepared to answer that question. A good starter would be for National Geographic's marine scientist/archeologist/explorer, Dr. Robert Ballard to at least go to the Gulf of Aqaba and explore the site marine biologist, Dr. Lennart Moller has researched, witten about and produced videos of the underwater photographed corral encased debris which resembles chariot parts, in a region described in the Biblical record including corroborating evidence relative to the Exodus account and Red Sea crossing. Why aren't the educational institutions calling for Mollar presentations of his marine research and professional underwater photography, etc? To my knowledge no secularist scientists have even shown any interest in this phenominal discovery. Why? Likely because it has supernatural implications which secular science purposfully avoids. So again, perhaps mainline secularist science's aversion to asking questions is indeed missing out on valuable and new discoveries as per your statement. And again, as it stands, secular science's goal is not really to 'teach the controversy', but rather it is to eliminate ID creationism and to pervert science into their own image, effectively killing science as well (applying some of your own phraseology).
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 78 by dwise1, posted 12-08-2007 2:11 AM | | dwise1 has not replied |
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4211 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: 10-06-2007
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Message 92 of 396 (439413)
12-08-2007 6:32 PM
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Reply to: Message 91 by Buzsaw
12-08-2007 6:27 PM
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A good starter would be for National Geographic's marine scientist/archeologist/explorer, Dr. Robert Ballard to at least go to the Gulf of Aqaba and explore the site marine biologist, Dr. Lennart Moller has researched, witten about and produced videos of the underwater photographed corral encased debris which resembles chariot parts, in a region described in the Biblical record including corroborating evidence relative to the Exodus account and Red Sea crossing. Why aren't the educational institutions calling for Mollar presentations of his marine research and professional underwater photography, etc? Do you have a website link to this?
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 91 by Buzsaw, posted 12-08-2007 6:27 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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Percy
Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: 12-23-2000 Member Rating: 4.8
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Message 93 of 396 (439414)
12-08-2007 6:32 PM
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Reply to: Message 91 by Buzsaw
12-08-2007 6:27 PM
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Topic Drift Alert!
Buz, topic, please. --Percy
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 91 by Buzsaw, posted 12-08-2007 6:27 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 94 of 396 (439415)
12-08-2007 6:38 PM
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Reply to: Message 88 by Buzsaw
12-08-2007 5:56 PM
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Where the ideas must be presented.
IDers are effectively eliminated. They cannot now even ask the questions, let alone discuss models in most schools. Sorry Buz but that is simply another false statement. The place they must BEGIN is in the peer reviewed science forum at the post-graduate level. Like anyone else, they must place therir models out for review, and do stuff like actually include ALL of the data. The truth is that Biblical Creationists, ID asserters and Creation Scientists simply have no models for anything except getting ignorant gullible Christians to send money. That model they have perfected though.
Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 88 by Buzsaw, posted 12-08-2007 5:56 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Supernatural Not All That Mysterious
Hi Granny. Greetings and welcome to EvC. Evidence of the supernatural relative to science must of necessity be above the example you've given. It must involve the sciences of archeology, exploration, physical observation and historical research etc. It may as well include mathmatical probabilities, statistics, geneology, verifiable prophecy fulfillment and such. My understanding is that none of this is being allowed in the public educational arena.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past.
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Supernatural Not All That Mysterious
OOPS double post. Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 79 by Granny Magda, posted 12-08-2007 5:48 AM | | Granny Magda has not replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 97 of 396 (439423)
12-08-2007 7:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 95 by Buzsaw
12-08-2007 6:38 PM
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How do you present the evidence
Evidence of the supernatural relative to science must of necessity be above the example you've given. It must involve the sciences of archeology, exploration, physical observation and historical research etc. Please provide the model that explains how archeology can support the existence of the supernatural?
It may as well include mathmatical probabilities, statistics, geneology, verifiable prophecy fulfillment and such. Do you ever plan to present evidence of fulfilled prophecy or are you just gonna make the claim and run away again? What is the model for geneological evidence of the supernatural? Maybe put Gods Granddad on the stand?
My understanding is that none of this is being allowed in the public educational arena. Thank GOD! The topic in case you missed it is "So Just How is ID's Supernatural-based Science Supposed to Work?" What is your model for placing the supernatural on the lab bench to be tested?
Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 95 by Buzsaw, posted 12-08-2007 6:38 PM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 98 by RAZD, posted 12-08-2007 7:22 PM | | jar has not replied | | | Message 102 by Buzsaw, posted 12-08-2007 8:50 PM | | jar has replied |
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 98 of 396 (439428)
12-08-2007 7:22 PM
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Reply to: Message 97 by jar
12-08-2007 7:08 PM
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Re: How do you present the evidence
Please provide the model that explains how archeology can support the existence of the supernatural? Don't you know? The discovery of Troy showed that the story of Achilles is true, which proves that the designer was Zeus.
What is your model for placing the supernatural on the lab bench to be tested? It's all greek to me ... Enjoy.
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| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 97 by jar, posted 12-08-2007 7:08 PM | | jar has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 103 by Buzsaw, posted 12-08-2007 8:51 PM | | RAZD has replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2191 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Message 99 of 396 (439435)
12-08-2007 8:01 PM
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Reply to: Message 76 by Buzsaw
12-07-2007 9:33 PM
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What are the predictions of ID? What are the potential falsifications? How have they been tested? What have been the results? If you have no answers to those questions, why should ID be taught in science classes?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 76 by Buzsaw, posted 12-07-2007 9:33 PM | | Buzsaw has replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2191 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Message 100 of 396 (439438)
12-08-2007 8:03 PM
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Reply to: Message 81 by Beretta
12-08-2007 9:19 AM
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All of this is just distraction
What are the predictions of ID? What are the potential falsifications? How have they been tested? What have been the results? If you have no answers to those questions, why should ID be taught in science classes?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 81 by Beretta, posted 12-08-2007 9:19 AM | | Beretta has not replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 101 of 396 (439450)
12-08-2007 8:49 PM
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Reply to: Message 99 by nator
12-08-2007 8:01 PM
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What is your response to the specifics of my message 91 relative to your questions?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 99 by nator, posted 12-08-2007 8:01 PM | | nator has not replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 102 of 396 (439451)
12-08-2007 8:50 PM
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Reply to: Message 97 by jar
12-08-2007 7:08 PM
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Re: How do you present the evidence
What is your response to the specifics of my message 91 relative to your questions?
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 97 by jar, posted 12-08-2007 7:08 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 104 by jar, posted 12-08-2007 9:02 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied | | | Message 124 by nator, posted 12-09-2007 3:17 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 103 of 396 (439452)
12-08-2007 8:51 PM
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Reply to: Message 98 by RAZD
12-08-2007 7:22 PM
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Re: How do you present the evidence
What is your response to the specifics of my message 91 relative to your comments?
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 98 by RAZD, posted 12-08-2007 7:22 PM | | RAZD has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 107 by RAZD, posted 12-08-2007 9:43 PM | | Buzsaw has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 416 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 104 of 396 (439457)
12-08-2007 9:02 PM
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Reply to: Message 102 by Buzsaw
12-08-2007 8:50 PM
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Re: How do you present the evidence
A good starter would be for National Geographic's marine scientist/archeologist/explorer, Dr. Robert Ballard to at least go to the Gulf of Aqaba and explore the site marine biologist, Dr. Lennart Moller has researched, witten about and produced videos of the underwater photographed corral encased debris which resembles chariot parts, in a region described in the Biblical record including corroborating evidence relative to the Exodus account and Red Sea crossing. Why aren't the educational institutions calling for Mollar presentations of his marine research and professional underwater photography, etc? To my knowledge no secularist scientists have even shown any interest in this phenominal discovery. Why? Likely because it has supernatural implications which secular science purposfully avoids. So again, perhaps mainline secularist science's aversion to asking questions is indeed missing out on valuable and new discoveries as per your statement. And again, as it stands, secular science's goal is not really to 'teach the controversy', but rather it is to eliminate ID creationism and to pervert science into their own image, effectively killing science as well (applying some of your own phraseology). Dr. Lennart Moller never produced ANY evidence. All he did was produce an infomercial that ignorant gullible Christians will buy. He did no research, presented no case, just sold his commercial. He did NO science, shows no understanding of science, has NO evidence, presented nothing to the peer review process because he knows nothing he has done will stand up to examination by anything except ignorant gullible Christians. So far Creation Scientists, Biblical Creationists and ID asserters have NEVER presented any models in support of their positions. Except of course the model of how to get ignorant gullible Christians to send them money. So when are YOU going to actually step up and present a model or support ANY of your assertions. AbE: Lennart Mller really is a scientist, and so he KNOWS what is required for scientific research. The only possible explanation for him NOT following normal scientific methodology is that he knows he has nothing that would stand up to examination in the peer review system and also that Biblical Christians are taught NOT to critically examine assertions that seem to support their desired conclusion but will willing fork over good dollars. Edited by jar, : add info on Lennart Mller
Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 102 by Buzsaw, posted 12-08-2007 8:50 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 105 of 396 (439458)
12-08-2007 9:03 PM
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Reply to: Message 99 by nator
12-08-2007 8:01 PM
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schraf writes: What are the predictions of ID? What are the potential falsifications? How have they been tested? To get into the specifics of ID relative to science, would be leading off topic. Relative to topic, dwise1 asks how ID's supernatural based science can work. My message 91 offers one example of science supportive to the supernatural which secular science has ignored. If Dwise and you folks want an answer, we have to begin some place. That's what I'm attempting to do.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 99 by nator, posted 12-08-2007 8:01 PM | | nator has not replied |
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