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Author Topic:   fulfilled prophecy - specific examples.
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 262 (439593)
12-09-2007 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by IamJoseph
12-08-2007 11:11 PM


Good Beginning
You've hit on a good opener, IAJ. This is indeed one of the most significant ancient prophecies which Biblical fundamentalists, both Jewish and Christian have anticipated for centuries and milleniums. Now that the world witnesses the end time fulfillment of this remarkable prophecy, the majority of the world including most Jews and Christians are oblivious to the imminency and significance of it's complete fulfillment which will soon come to pass as the messianic prophecies of a messianic kingdom in Israel headquartered at Jerusalem will emerge.
As I said, your opener is excellent. I could augment that with numerous OT updates to that early prophecy such as Isaiah, Ezekiel, Joel, Zechariah etc. However I'm going to cite the remarkable Olivet Discourse account were Jesus specifies Jerusalem relative to the dispersement and reoccupation fulfillment.
Luke 21:20-24 writes:
20 But when ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is at hand.
21 Then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains; and let them that are in the midst of her depart out; and let not them that are in the country enter therein.
22 For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led captive into all the nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
Be aware that when Jesus spoke these words, the city of Jerusalem, though under the ultimate authority of Rome was occupied by Jews. Jesus said they would be dispersed among the nations corroborating many OT prophecies to include total desolation of the land but then an undetermined period of time out in the future would eventually come when Gentile occupation would end, clearly implying reoccupation of Jews to the city.
Lo and behold, in the 1967 Six Day Israel War, Jerusalem, including the Wailing Wall moved back into Jewish occupation for the first time since 70 AD when Titus of Rome destroyed the Temple and drove the Jews out to be scattered. I've told this before but I'll refresh that the weekend before that war I had a business in Southern Ca. Everyone knew that war was emminent, Jerusalem amd all Israel being surrounded by enemy nations poised for attack heavily armed by Russia who was powerful then. A neighbor friend who was avoud athiest strolled into my business establishment and asked, "Who's going to win this war, the 2 million Jews or the 20 million Arabs?" I said something like, "Wells, (his name) it may take a few months but Israel will win according to Bible Prophecy." Needless to say that in six short violent days, prophecy was fulfilled and the old walled portion of Jerusalem providentially became reoccupied by Jews as per the prophecy of Jesus and the OT prophets.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by IamJoseph, posted 12-08-2007 11:11 PM IamJoseph has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by PaulK, posted 12-09-2007 1:44 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 60 by Nimrod, posted 12-13-2007 3:51 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 262 (439597)
12-09-2007 1:28 PM


Outline Format?
CK, thanks for initiating this thread and thanks to NJ for promoting it. Imo, rather than an outline format, the way we are moving will be more effective, given there won't be a whole lot of scripture to deal with all at once (abe: as would be the case) if they are all formated in outline. This way opponents and proponents may deal with the specific texts as they arise. As is with many prophecies, there may be a number of corroborating scripture texts throughout the Bible which apply to a given prophecy such as the one which has been cited thus far. These all may not come to mind at the same time.
Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past.

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 262 (439612)
12-09-2007 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by jar
12-09-2007 1:38 PM


Re: a nonsense prophecy
In Biblical eschatology novists tend to isolate specific prophecies as you are attempting to do here. As one delves into and studies the prophecies in debth it becomes evident that prophecies expand upon one another as time passes. This is how the scriptures harmonize to complete the story of planet earth from beginning to end. If you corroborate Leviticus with all the other prophets down the line regarding the dispersement and restoration of the nation of Israel you come to see present day Israel restored to their land in perspective.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by jar, posted 12-09-2007 1:38 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by jar, posted 12-09-2007 3:44 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 262 (439908)
12-10-2007 8:25 PM


PROPHECY: THE ABRAHAMIC COVENANT
The prophecy in question actually began with what is termed by Biblical scholars as the Abrahamic Covenant. This was a prophetic promise/covenant by the Biblical god, Jehovah to Abraham.
The Abrahamic Covenant is an unconditional covenant. God made promises to Abraham that required nothing of Abraham. Genesis 15:18-21 describes a part of the Abrahamic Covenant, specifically dealing with the dimensions of the land God promised to Abraham and his descendants. It was an unconditional promise/covenant/prophecy to Abraham requiring an ultimate fulfillment. If it failed, God would fail to keep his promise.
It's found in Genesis 12:1-3. ASV
12:1 Now Jehovah said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto the land that I will show thee:
12:2 and I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make they name great; and be thou a blessing;
12:3 and I will bless them that bless thee, and him that curseth thee will I curse: and in thee shall all the families of the earth be blessed.
Then in Genesis 13:14-17 Jehovah, god expanded on the prophecy/covenant/promise as he stood in Caanan to where Jehovah led him:
13:14 And Jehovah said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art, northward and southward and eastward and westward:
13:15 for all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
13:16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: So that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then may thy seed also be numbered.
13:17 Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for unto thee will I give it.
This prophecy/covenant prophesied that trough the seed of Abraham Jehovah would eventually bless all nations. This is important in understanding the messianic kingdom agenda throughout the OT and fulfilled by Jesus as OT prophecy confirms.
In Genesis 15:18-21, Jehovah expands on the prophecy by prophecying the dimensions of the land which was to be the messianic covenant kingdom. This precludes doctrines which teach that it would be fulfilled in Heaven. This is a kingdom on earth to come and these were the boundaries.
15:18 In that day Jehovah made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
15:19 the Kenite, and the Kenizzite, and the Kadmonite,
15:20 and the Hittite, and the Perizzite, and the Rephaim,
15:21 and the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Girgashite, and the Jebusite.
In Genesis 17 Jehovah adds that his seed will be kings etc and promises him a son in he and Sarah's old age. Abraham takes Sarah's handmaid and has a son, Ishmael. Abraham asks God to make Ishmael the covenant son but God denies the request promising a son by Sarah who will be the son of the prophetic kingdom. You can read it all in Genesis 17 & in those chapters.
God reaffirms the prophecy/promise in Genesis 21 and 26 to Isaac and in Gen 28 to Jacob.
In Deuteronomy chapter 3 you can see where the promise/prophecy is fulfilled in part when the heathen land of Caanan falls into the hands of Israel, Abraham's descendents via Sarah's son Isaac and grandson, Jacob as God had promised. Jacob's 12 sons divide up the land God gave over into their possession.
The prophecy is fulfilled in part at this point. I say in part, because the messianic kingdom has not yet been fulfilled begs the question as to which one of the 12 sons of Jacob, i.e. 12 Tribes Of Israel does the covenant promise go? The answer is in Genesis 49:10, where Jacob, being an aged man pronounces the blessings/prophecies upon his 12 sons. In Gen 49:10 we read the following:
10The sceptre shall not depart from Judah,
Nor the ruler's staff from between his feet,
Until Shiloh come:
And unto him shall the obedience of the peoples be.
Septer meaning kingdom and Shiloh, a Hebrew name meaning "his gift" or "the sent one." War, Battle Names for Boys (when you get to the page click page 5 and you find Shiloh
According to Luke 3 according to the recorded geneologies King David was 10 sons down from Judah to whom the prophecy was given. In II Samuel 7 God reafirms the prophecy/promise to King David and the decendents of Judah via David are in the land until they go after idols and disobey God's commandments. God raises up Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon to punish the Jews by exile after which they are eventually back in the land with a 2nd temple.
Eventually Jesus, who according to the geneologies of the Gospels is the virgin born messiah/savior who instead of taking the kingdom dies for the sins of the people but prophesies that after the Jews are scattered and gentiles occupy the land, a time out in the future will come when the Jews will return from the nations and he will return to earth to consumate his kingdom in the land of Israel, the messianic kingdom promised/prophesied way back to Abraham will finally be fulfilled.
This all had to be layed out so as to come to why modern day Israel is so significant in the prophecy and why it is so significant. It's a miracle that this nationality of people were scattered world wide as prophesied by Jesus and the OT prophets and come back from all the nations to where they went to establish the kingdom again in preparation for "the gift", i.e. "the sent one", i.e. Shiloh, decendent of Judah as prophesied in Genesis 49:10
here is my outline for this prophecy.
Edited by Buzsaw, : Enter URL for Outline

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by jar, posted 12-10-2007 8:36 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 25 by PaulK, posted 12-11-2007 3:55 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 28 by IamJoseph, posted 12-11-2007 5:50 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 77 of 262 (440629)
12-13-2007 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Nimrod
12-13-2007 3:51 PM


Re: Jewish Occupation
Nimrod writes:
Actually, there are fewer Jews living in Jerusalem (ie the "old city") *today* than ever.
Are you trying to allege that there are fewer Jews in the old walled city of Jerusalem today than during all of the past 19 centuries??
From the days of Constantine until the Arab conquest in 638, Jews were banned from Jerusalem,........
History of Jerusalem - Wikipedia(Middle_Ages)

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Nimrod, posted 12-13-2007 3:51 PM Nimrod has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Nimrod, posted 12-14-2007 9:23 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 78 of 262 (440643)
12-13-2007 11:14 PM


Buzsaw's Cited Prophecy Outlined
I. Abrahamic covenent prophecy Genesis 15:18-21
II. Covenent prophecy reaffirmed to Isaac: Genesis 21 and 16
III. Covenent prophecy reaffirmed to Jacob, Isaac's son: Genesis 28
IV. Covenent prophecy reaffirmed to Judah, son of Jacob: Genesis
49:10
V. Covenent prophecy reaffirmed to King David, descendent of
Judah. II Samuel 7:9-12
VII. Covenent prophecy reaffirmed to messiah to come. Kingdom in Israel to be forever: II Samuel 7:12
VIII. Messiah appears as per prophecy corroborated by numerous other corroborating and supportive prophecies concerning Jesus, descendent of King David.
VIII. Messiah Jesus crucified as per such prophecies as Isaiah 53 and many more for the sins of all who repent and receive this vicarious salvation including Gentile nations as per propmise to Abraham that all nations would be blessed by Abraham's seed.
IX. Messiah extends kingdom prophecy by his own prophecy of a period of Gentile occupation which will end before his 2nd advent to destroy the armies of the world and establish his kingdom on earth. This prophecy found in Luke 21:24 where Jesus prophecies that Gentile occupation of the old walled city of Jerusalem will end meaning Jewish occupation will be resumed before his 2nd advent to rule the world.
So, my friends, there you have the ongoing prophecy first given to Abraham that all nations would eventually be blessed by his seed all the way down to the Six Day War in 1967 AD when the Jews for the first time since he spoke this remarkable prophecy, marched into the old walled city to rejoice at the Wailing Wall!
There remains one and only one more event to consumate the prophecy to Abraham way back in Genesis, the first book of the Bible. The last book of this great book, the book of Revelation has yet to be fulfilled when Armaggedon comes and the wrath of God is poured out upon the earth in preparation for this advent (ABE: in the prophesied restored nation of Israel and specifically at the city of Jerusalem and even more specifically at Mt Zion, the Temple Mount were the Muslim Dome Of The Rock presently stands!
So I have outlined the prophecy as per the OP and as per the call to do so by AdminPhat.
The specifics of the outlined are found here in my message 17 on page one.
Enjoy, and take it or leave it for what it's worth to you.
Edited by Buzsaw, : Enter URL
Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.
Edited by Buzsaw, : No reason given.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by PaulK, posted 12-14-2007 4:00 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 88 by Nimrod, posted 12-14-2007 10:25 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 87 of 262 (440727)
12-14-2007 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Nimrod
12-14-2007 9:23 AM


Re: Jewish Occupation
Nimrod writes:
Nimrod writes:
Actually, there are fewer Jews living in Jerusalem (ie the "old city") *today* than ever.
Buzsaw writes:
Are you trying to allege that there are fewer Jews in the old walled city of Jerusalem today than during all of the past 19 centuries??
Im saying that as a percentage of the population, Jews are much much smaller in the Old City.
The fact remains that for most of the past 1900 years there have been fewer Jews residing within the confines of the Old walled city of Jerusalem than there are today. Percentages has nothing to do with my statement. That is a strawman spin on your part from my position.
Your position to which I was responding is claiming that there are fewer Jews residing in the confines of the old city than any time in history, i.e. ever, to use your wording. That is a blatant false allegation which I have soundly refuted.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Nimrod, posted 12-14-2007 9:23 AM Nimrod has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Nimrod, posted 12-14-2007 10:30 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
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