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Author | Topic: Insect Wing Evolution | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
BattleAxeDime Junior Member (Idle past 5947 days) Posts: 30 Joined: |
I would like to hear some evolutionary theories for insectal wing development. I can't seem to find any material on this subject. There seems to be this obsession with flight evolution in birds when insects should pose a bigger problem to macroevolution. Since Insects compose over 60% of all biological species, one would believe that the theory for insect flight evolution would be very extensive. I am beginning to believe that insecta does create a problem for Macroevolution, because of evolutionists consitent need to change and revise the insectal phylogenetic tree.
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AdminNosy Administrator Posts: 4754 From: Vancouver, BC, Canada Joined: |
Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1404 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Check out
Stephen J. GouldTop Cash Earning Games in India 2022 | Best Online Games to earn real money This websitePage not found - American Atheists And this (stonefly research)http://www.rps.psu.edu/jun95/marden.html Particularly the video. Then ask questions. Enjoy. we are limited in our ability to understand by our ability to understand RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share.
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anglagard Member (Idle past 836 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
After you have read RAZD's resources available online, you may want to actually follow up on insect wing evolution by visiting a university library and seeking out these articles:
Rowing locomotion by a stonefly that possesses the ancestral pterygote condition of co-occurring wings and abdominal gills. By: MARDEN, JAMES H.; THOMAS, MICHAEL A.. Biological Journal of the Linnean Society, Jun2003, Vol. 79 Issue 2, p341-349, 9p; DOI: 10.1046/j.1095-8312.2003.00192.x; Diverse Adaptations of an Ancestral Gill: A Common Evolutionary Origin for Wings, Breathing Organs, and Spinnerets. By: Damen, Wim G.M.; Saridaki, Theodora; Averof, Michalis. Current Biology, Oct2002, Vol. 12 Issue 19, p1711, 6p; Form And Function Of Insect Wings, The Evolution Of Biological Structures. By: Wootton, Robin. Systematic Entomology, Jul2000, Vol. 25 Issue 3, p406-407, 6p; DOI: 10.1046/j.1365-3113.2000.00121-2.x; Evolutionary origin of insect wings from ancestral gills. (cover story) By: Averof, Michalis; Cohen, Stephen M.. Nature, 2/13/97, Vol. 385 Issue 6617, p627, 4p, 6 diagrams, 11bw; Surface-skimming stoneflies: A possible intermediate stage in insect flight evolution. By: Marden, James H.; Kramer, Melissa G.. Science, 10/21/94, Vol. 266 Issue 5184, p427, 4p, 2 charts, 1 diagram, 4 graphs, 6bw;
Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider - Francis Bacon The more we understand particular things, the more we understand God - Spinoza
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Wounded King Member Posts: 4149 From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Joined: |
I am beginning to believe that insecta does create a problem for Macroevolution, because of evolutionists consitent need to change and revise the insectal phylogenetic tree. Why should this represent a problem? There are a hell of a lot of insects and more genetic information on them is being gathered all the time, this is bound to lead to a lot of revision of phylogenetic trees, especially ones based principally on gross morphology. Just to add to the many suggested links there is an interesting review in PNAS looking at different theories of insect wing origins and how some can be tested through developmental approaches, (Jockusch and Ober, 2004). TTFN, WK
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BattleAxeDime Junior Member (Idle past 5947 days) Posts: 30 Joined: |
I am already aware of all the information there is on Plecoptera. It's just a minor order sunk deep in the Neopterous stock, and has little to do with insect evolution as a whole. That one source "Form and Function of Insect wings, The Evolution of Biological Structures" Sounds interesting though. Thank You.
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BattleAxeDime Junior Member (Idle past 5947 days) Posts: 30 Joined: |
Why is there all this obsession with Stoneflies? Could someone please send a link to an up-to-date Phylogenetic tree. The information doesn't seem to make any sense when compared to my tree.
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Wounded King Member Posts: 4149 From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA Joined: |
The tree of life website has a very nice nested phylogeny for winged insects but you need to browse through the various levels to see it all. I'm not sure where there is a detailed phylogeny of the winged insect, or insecta in general.
TTFN, WK
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BattleAxeDime Junior Member (Idle past 5947 days) Posts: 30 Joined: |
Insect wings are an evolutionarily significant novelty whose origin is not recorded in the fossil record. Insects with fully developed wings capable of flight appear in the fossil record in the upper Carboniferous (ca. 320 million years ago), by which time they had already diversified into more than 10 orders, at least 3 of which are still extant. I find this exerpt from your link the most interesting. This is a massive gap in the fossil record. 10 new orders of flying animals. That's a lot of missing links. Evolutionists should be more concerned about this than the missing link between ape and man. Edited by BattleAxeDime, : I accidently repeated the same text multiple times. Maybe something wrong with my browser. Edited by BattleAxeDime, : I accidently repeated the same text multiple times. I was using improper HTML coding
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BattleAxeDime Junior Member (Idle past 5947 days) Posts: 30 Joined: |
Pterygota only provided phylogeny on paleopterous. The whole theory of the wing development from gills only applies to the Paleopterous stock, the Plecopterans, and maybe Trichopterans. I want some information on the devolopment of wings in neoptera.
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BattleAxeDime Junior Member (Idle past 5947 days) Posts: 30 Joined: |
I had already watched the videos, and read all the material from our previous conversation, which I came away from unsatisfied.
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jar Member (Idle past 393 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Evolutionists should be more concerned about this than the missing link between ape and man. Why? Problems such as you mention add no weight to any other possible model, and so far Creationists have never been able to offer any model. Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3977 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.3 |
BattleAxeDime writes: I find this exerpt from your link the most interesting. This is a massive gap in the fossil record. 10 new orders of flying animals. That's a lot of missing links. Gee, you could fit a God in a gap that big!
Evolutionists should be more concerned about this than the missing link between ape and man. Sure, we're sweating bullets. Real things always push back. -William James Save lives! Click here!Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC! ---------------------------------------
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
Gee, you could fit a God in a gap that big! BWAHAHAHAHA *cough cough hack GAK!*
Hee hee hee hee hee.
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spitze Junior Member (Idle past 5759 days) Posts: 6 Joined: |
The missing link is a myth, or at least a twisted form of the truth. Notice how many times "the missing link" has been found. This is because every time scientists find a the bones of something close to a modern human there is still a gap between that and homo sapien and hence a "missing link"
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