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Author Topic:   Why does Richard Dawkins sing Christmas carols?
molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2663 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 16 of 301 (441157)
12-16-2007 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by NosyNed
12-16-2007 2:48 PM


Little atheist girls
It lasted about 6 months before her conclusion was: "They all believe they are right and they all believe different things.".
In the last 2 or 3 years I have to remind her that not all so-called "Christians" are like what she finds on FSTDTs (fundies say the darndest things) or here. They have helped make her a somewhat militant atheist.
Oh, god bless you, Ned.
I came to the same conclusion at the same age, without the benefit of the interwebs or a talk with daddy!
One of the side effects of growing up in a very small Southern town and having an inquisitive mind, I think.
My putting up a tree or singing carols is as "hypocritical" about as much as my saying "god bless you" or "god dammit" is hypocritical.
Putting up a tree is a habit. God is a word.
Edited by molbiogirl, : sp

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molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2663 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 18 of 301 (441160)
12-16-2007 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Kitsune
12-16-2007 1:29 PM


... the more I learn about Dawkins myself, the more I don't like his ideas.
You really should read the man's book(s).
He is one smart cookie. And a wonderful writer.
His books are full of all that icky science stuff, tho ... hm.
That is a conundrum.
Oh. Wait a minute. Icky EVOLUTION science stuff is OK, icky EVERY OTHER KIND OF SCIENCE stuff is very, very bad.
Yeah.
Read his book(s).

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molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2663 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 35 of 301 (441216)
12-16-2007 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by crashfrog
12-16-2007 6:05 PM


Crash, in my heart ...
... I agree with you.
I fail to see how any honest scientist could possibly believe in such unadulterated horseshit ... oops, I mean religion. But some do. How they manage such cognitive dissonance, I don't know.
But stepping out of one's arena (biology into history/sociology) is ... tetchy.
Witness James Watson. Or what of those all those gd engineers that see fit to proclaim evolution bankrupt based on their incisive scientific insight?
That said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a scientist being forthright about his atheism. I wish more would.
And to characterize Dr. Dawkins as evangelical (as our beloved woomeister Lindalou has) simply because he has chosen to publish a book on atheism (THE NERVE) ... well ... that's really a bit much.
But (and believe me it pains me a great deal to say this) I agree with H.
Dawkins is not "being a scientist" when he writes of atheism (and by that I mean not-a-scientist-with-the-appropriate-training-that-we-are-talking-about).
And I suspect that H is trying to somehow belittle Dawkins with his "not a scientist" bullshit.
Quoth the H: "It is this misrepresentation by himself and others that support him, that irks me the most."
What misrepresentation this numbskull is referring to, I haven't the foggiest.
Perhaps he meant to suggest "I resent a scientist of Dr. Dawkins' stature taking advantage of said bully pulpit to declare his atheism is such a vulgar way."
Keeping in mind, of course, that any profession of atheism is vulgar to those ... sorts.
And that's just plain ignernt.
Dr. Dawkins is a remarkable man and a brilliant scientist. Thank anything that is even remotely fn holy that Dr. Dawkins stepped up to the plate and knocked one out of the park.
Folks that feel bereft without some "transcendent" mystery in their lives need to adopt a stray cat or something.

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Replies to this message:
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 Message 38 by iano, posted 12-16-2007 7:03 PM molbiogirl has replied
 Message 44 by crashfrog, posted 12-16-2007 10:16 PM molbiogirl has not replied
 Message 54 by Kitsune, posted 12-17-2007 3:36 AM molbiogirl has replied
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molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2663 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 39 of 301 (441227)
12-16-2007 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by iano
12-16-2007 7:03 PM


Re: Crash, in my heart ...
Brilliant? What did he do that was brilliant science?
wiki writes:
Dawkins topped Prospect magazine's 2004 list of the top 100 public British intellectuals, as decided by the readers, receiving twice as many votes as the runner-up.[78] In 2005, the Hamburg-based Alfred Toepfer Foundation awarded him their Shakespeare Prize in recognition of his "concise and accessible presentation of scientific knowledge".[79] He was the winner of the Lewis Thomas Prize for Writing about Science for 2006 and the Galaxy British Book Awards Author of the Year for 2007;[80] in the same year he was listed in Time magazine as one of the 100 most influential people in the world in 2007,[81] and was awarded the Deschner Prize, named after Karlheinz Deschner.[82]
In addition:
wiki writes:
* The Selfish Gene (1976, 1989, 2006)
* The Extended Phenotype (1982, 1999)
* The Blind Watchmaker (1986, 1991, 2006)
* River Out of Eden (1995)
* Climbing Mount Improbable (1996)
* Unweaving the Rainbow (1998)
* A Devil's Chaplain (2003)
* The Ancestor's Tale (2004)
* The God Delusion (2006)
* Viruses of the Mind (1993)
* The Real Romance in the Stars (1995)
* The Emptiness of Theology (1998)
* Snake Oil and Holy Water (1999)
* Bin Laden's Victory (2003)
* What Use is Religion? (2004)
* Race and Creation (2004)
* The giant tortoise's tale, The turtle's tale and The lava lizard's tale (2005)
In addition:
Education, Positions and Degrees
1954-1959 Oundle School
1959-1962 Balliol College, University of Oxford
1962-1966 Research Student, Oxford University (D.Phil., 1966)
1965-1967 Research Assistant to Professor N.Tinbergen FRS
1967-1969 Assistant Professor of Zoology, University of California, Berkeley
1969-1970 Senior Research Officer, Department of Zoology, Oxford
1970-1990 University Lecturer in Zoology, and Fellow of New College, Oxford
1989 D.Sc. (Oxford)
1990-1995 Ad hominem Reader in Zoology, University of Oxford
1995- Charles Simonyi Professor of the Public Understanding of Science,
University of Oxford, and Professorial Fellow of New College Honours
1987 Royal Society of Literature Award for The Blind Watchmaker
1987 Los Angeles Times Literary Prize, for The Blind Watchmaker
1987 Sci.Tech Prize for Best Television Documentary Science Programmme
of the Year, for BBC Horizon Programme: The Blind Watchmaker
1988 Honorary Fellowship, Regent's College, London
1989 Zoological Society of London Silver Medal
1990 Royal Society of London, Michael Faraday Award
1994 Nakayama Prize for Achievement in Human Science
1995 Honorary Doctor of Letters, St Andrews University
1996 Honorary Doctor of Letters, Australian National University, Canberra
1996 Humanist of the Year Award
1996 Vice-President of the British Humanist Association R.Dawkins,
1997 Elected Fellow of the Royal Society of Literature
1997 International Cosmos Prize, Osaka, Japan.
1997 Hon. D.Sc. University of Westminster
2001 Elected Fellow of the Royal Society
2001 Hon. D.Sc. University of Hull
2001 Kistler Prize, USA
2002 Bicentennial Kelvin Medal, Royal Philosophical Society of Glasgow
2003 Hon. Doctor of the University, Open University
2004 Hon. Fellow, Balliol College, Oxford University
2004 Honorary Patron, University Philosophical Society. Trinity College, Dublin
2005 Shakespeare Prize for Contribution to British Culture, Hamburg Germany
All of this in addition, of course, to over 100 papers he has published in the past 30 years.
I, myself, do research on ribozymes.
And you?

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molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2663 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 50 of 301 (441299)
12-17-2007 12:40 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by crashfrog
12-17-2007 12:22 AM


Anyway we're pretty far off-topic. We should probably drop it.
Yeah. You're probably right.
Gotta say, tho.
A Dworkin ref.
That's hawt.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by crashfrog, posted 12-17-2007 12:22 AM crashfrog has replied

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molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2663 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 59 of 301 (441339)
12-17-2007 5:18 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Kitsune
12-17-2007 3:36 AM


You sound like a Gary Larson cartoon
Lindalou Message 54 writes:
If ... blah blah blah ... spirituality ... blah blah blah ... ultimate truth ... blah blah blah ... insulted ... blah blah blah ... more to life ... blah blah blah ...
Is your latest post your idea of this?
Lindalou Message 57 The Right Way to Debunk writes:
This thread is called (insert thread name) which presumably means discussing strategies for debate. It is not a thread devoted to (insert atheism) conversation that I was having a few months ago. That is OT here and if any of you want to try to lure me into that somewhere else, it won't work. I came back here to get info for the debates I'm having with creationists.
Or this?
Lindalou Message 82 The Right Way to Debunk writes:
And to get back to the topic here ...
Or this?
Lindalou Message 104 The Right Way to Debunk writes:
I'll try to focus more on the topic here too.
Crash and I tried to gently close the atheism side bar earlier this morning.
You have chosen to ignore that.
Is "I am going to stick to the topic." going to become the latest Lindalou-ism? (In case you don't remember, your first Lindalou-ism was "I am leaving." "No, really, this time I mean it." "Seriously, I am going to leave." Ad nauseum.)
You're the little girl who cried wolf.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Kitsune, posted 12-17-2007 3:36 AM Kitsune has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Kitsune, posted 12-17-2007 6:32 AM molbiogirl has replied

molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2663 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 67 of 301 (441428)
12-17-2007 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Kitsune
12-17-2007 6:32 AM


Lindalou-ism #2
Percy asks how we can get creationists to stop repeating the same things over and over, and what does he do when he's talking with me?
Percy also asked you repeatedly to stop posting OT in the How To Debunk thread.
4 times in his latest post.

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 Message 61 by Kitsune, posted 12-17-2007 6:32 AM Kitsune has not replied

molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2663 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 98 of 301 (441722)
12-18-2007 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Kitsune
12-15-2007 7:15 AM


Does anyone else find this a wee bit hypocritical?
Using this crystal clear logic, I offer the following.
Things an atheist should not do:
1. Celebrate xmas
2. Celebrate easter
3. Celebrate Halloween
4. Curse (god dammit/jesus christ/hell/etc.)
5. Step inside a church for any reason
6. Read any book that has its origins in religion
7. Use any word that has its origins in religion (bless/holy/heaven/devil/etc.)
8. Take Sunday off from work
And that is just a partial list of the xian restrictions!
There's a list for EACH of the other religions!

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Replies to this message:
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molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2663 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 108 of 301 (441799)
12-18-2007 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by jar
12-18-2007 6:19 PM


How sad and pitiful you seem.
What on god's green earth are you talking about Jar?

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 Message 104 by jar, posted 12-18-2007 6:19 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by jar, posted 12-18-2007 7:25 PM molbiogirl has replied

molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2663 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 110 of 301 (441801)
12-18-2007 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by jar
12-18-2007 7:25 PM


It's a parody, Jar.
Jesus H. Christ on a crutch!

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 Message 109 by jar, posted 12-18-2007 7:25 PM jar has replied

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molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2663 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 148 of 301 (442190)
12-20-2007 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by sinequanon
12-20-2007 10:09 AM


Sin, you unabashed pagan!!!
Richard Dawkins, aa with any other non-Christian who sings Christmas carols, appears to me to be someone who has no issue saying what he does not necessarily believe.
To quote Bluegenes:
When Christians stop using words like Wednesday and Thursday (I'm sure they're all polytheistic pagans at heart) I'll agree to that.
Y'all got plans to rename Wednesday and Thursday any time soon?

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molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2663 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 150 of 301 (442211)
12-20-2007 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by macaroniandcheese
12-20-2007 3:31 PM


Re: Sin, you unabashed pagan!!!
I agree, Brenna.
Insisting that an atheist not celebrate a pagan holiday is stupid too.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2663 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 152 of 301 (442214)
12-20-2007 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by macaroniandcheese
12-20-2007 3:35 PM


Re: Sin, you unabashed pagan!!!
i do find it odd that someone who claims that moderate christians empower murderous fundamentalists of all stripes simply by existing would want to sing christian-type christmas carols and describe himself as "culturally christian". i don't care what he does with his free time. i care the stones that he throws.
If that's the case, then perhaps you'd care to explain why words are OK but holidays aren't?
If you condemn a man for celebrating a pagan holiday that was swiped by the xians, why would you then give him a pass on using words that are culturally xian?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-20-2007 3:35 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

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 Message 155 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-20-2007 4:11 PM molbiogirl has replied

molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2663 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 158 of 301 (442238)
12-20-2007 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by macaroniandcheese
12-20-2007 4:11 PM


Re: Sin, you unabashed pagan!!!
i don't condemn him for celebrating holidays. i condemn him for saying i'm empowering murderers.
OK. But you find it "odd" that he celebrates a pagan holiday given that he is adamant re: religious fundamentalists.
Why is it odd?
And why is it NOT odd that he (I'm assuming) uses words that are culturally xian (holy/blessed/god dammit/etc.)?

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Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-20-2007 4:23 PM molbiogirl has replied

molbiogirl
Member (Idle past 2663 days)
Posts: 1909
From: MO
Joined: 06-06-2007


Message 160 of 301 (442256)
12-20-2007 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by macaroniandcheese
12-20-2007 4:23 PM


Re: Sin, you unabashed pagan!!!
because those words (or rather their meanings) have been around longer than christianity.
So has xmas, Brenna. That's the point.
you people spend so much time denouncing "christian" superstition, why not "pagan" superstition?
I got no truck with superstition of any stripe. Will that suffice?
The fact remains, xmas is a pagan holiday that the xians swiped.
Dr. Dawkins referred to xmas as "culturally xian" because it is currently considered xian.
If you accept xmas as "culturally xian" because that is its current status, then you should accept the current cultural status of religiously-derived words, too.
You can't cite the historical origin of words and then ignore the historical origins of holidays.
You need to be consistent.

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Replies to this message:
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